Movement of our herps... opinions please

[swingonthespiral]

thanks for that twiggz.... but again we're missing the point that if YOU want to take YOUR snakes out in public or to someone house etc then it is YOUR risk and YOUR responsibilty for security measure, quarantine etc....

and yeah the paper work would be annoying but thats all i could think of so that it is recorded in a way....

 

[olivehydra]

it is a valid point although i do disagree..... could the same be said about the spread of OPMV as humans and STI's.... so with that reasoning wouldnt you be saying on a human scale that we shouldnt be having "relations".... lol at the word relations not u cris hehe..... if keepers are prepared to take that risk then i dont see the problem its all up to personal choice JMO.... i dont want this to turn into a cat fight i want to keep it civil cos so many threads turn into digested rat poo in here....

The problem is that you are making the choice for others and wild herps. Say for example you are carrying a snake with OPMV and I run into you at the corner shop, you have effectively exposed me to a virus without my consent. Or perhaps your snake gets loose and infects a wild snake???? Sounds a little extreme, but once you have experienced OPMV, you tend to look at things with a little more caution.

 

[Aslan]

To my knowledge there is no law preventing taking your reptiles to meetings...

Swingonthespiral - In regards to it being 'YOUR choice' I really don't think it SHOULD be. For instance, we are all well aware of the diseases that are blooming in captive collections - you may choose to take your snake out - what happens when that snake escapes? It MIGHT be carrying OPMV (etc) in which case it MIGHT infect a local population of snakes...potentially threatening ALL native snakes....

Surely you agree that that decision should not be left up to the individual...

You also state that "There is no quarantine in the wild" - and you're correct. That is WHY any new animals MUST be quarantined by humans. As is evidenced there are diseases in captive collections which have not surfaced in the wild, quarantine practices and strict rules regarding movement are the reason these diseases have remained out of wild specimens so far...It is collections held by humans which have spread these diseases and only fair that we remain responsible for the control of them...

Simon

 

[Hawk]

I have been having this problem as well. I have been trying to organise the showing of reptiles at or next meeting here in Rockhampton. We are in the process of developing strict quarantine procedures and guidelines for handling and transporting reptiles to and from the meeting. I was assured by the QPWS if we were to send them this information they would consider allowing us to show selected reptiles that are classified under the recreational licence, for educational purposes. Although the QPWS have not said they will allow us to show our reptiles they have atleast agreed to discuss the possibility of it, which is a good step forward.

I would also like to point out that only animals from one collection at a time would be permitted to be shown as to decrease the chance of decease. Handling would also be kept to a minimum.

 

[Aslan]

Hawke - PM Peter Johnson - he had a quarantine procedure developed by a number of reptile Vets for the Mac Herps show a few months ago. I am sure he would be glad to share them.

They may also be listed on www.macherps.com but I am not sure...

 

[Hawk]

Thanks Aslan. any help would be great.

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

Maybe they could let us elect other places that we can take our snakes whenever we want (eg without paperwork every time) for example if I want to take my snakes to my boyfriend's house or as swingonthespiral said "my mum gets the poos if i dont bring someone over when i come over for dinner every week " So maybe we could have 2 or 3 specific addresses that we could transport our snakes to and from. Maybe as a small extra fee for this addition (say an extra $5 per address) and specify which of your reptiles were allowed to be transported.

Even if they have a "movement advice" type of form that you carry with the reptiles.

I don't take my snakes out much but I have once or twice to "show off" to my friends. More importantly though, I go there to teach them about snakes and show them how great they are. I love turning people into snake-lovers, or at least give them a new appreciation for reptiles (can't win 'em all hehehe). My point is I don't think it should be necessary to get an exhibitors licence just to show my friends (and sometimes their friends) and it isn't always convenient for my family to have my friends to come over to my house to see my reptiles.

As for quarantine my friends don't have snakes, and when I move them I make sure they are very secure (I don't want to lose my babies!) so theres no contamination to the wild or to mine. I always make sure people who are going to handle my snakes have at least washed their hands, and also with hand-cleaner if I have it at the time.

My friends wouldn't steal my snakes and their friends don't know where I live.

-Penny

 

[nuthn2do]

I think it would be hard on the animals, they are not like dogs and cats etc in the fact they are not sociable and most really don't like being held and carted around.

 

[junglecarpet]

I dont know if this has been said, but I think there would also be alot of difference between taking a hatchling/yearling python out compared to a full grown python...

 

[Aslan]

Penny - Of course noone WANTS to lose their snakes, but every week we have a number of people distraught with a thread about how one of their snakes got out. No doubt we all have the best intentions but the risk of contamination because you want to "show off" to your friends (as you put it) can hardly be justified...

 

[olivehydra]

I know it is an easy term to use, but you may also want to consider the terms of "ownership". I may be wrong, but I think it is actually false to claim the reptiles that reside in your house as "yours". When Australia took on the common law of England, ownership of all native animals went to the Crown. Yes some states (I think S.A.) use the wording "under guardianship of the Crown". So although you have a licence to keep reptiles, you may not in fact own them.
If you lost your drivers licence, you still own your car (if it hasnt been impounded). If you lose your fauna keepers licence you also lose your animals. So perhaps if they are not your animals, then your opinion becomes moot

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

if I don't have ownership of my reptiles, they why does it cost so darn much to get them??

 

[olivehydra]

if I don't have ownership of my reptiles, they why does it cost so darn much to get them??

so as to keep the Queen in the manner to which she is accustomed, poor old duck

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

besides, if you lose your fauna keepers licence, you aren't allowed to keep your animals anymore so they have to find somewhere else for them to go. They aren't "rightfully reclaiming true ownership" or anything like that.

 

[Olive Xm]

Are these laws the same in victoria?

 

[olivehydra]

Are these laws the same in victoria?

Yeah I think so. I'm no expert on wildlife law, but in regard to native title (which is similar), I do know that the only change occured as a result of the law reform commission looking at indigenous rites to hunting. Still no reconciliation on ownership though, so that is why I assume that we therefore dont "own" our herps. I kind of like the idea of only being a "caretaker"

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

I kind of like the idea of only being a "caretaker"

doesn't that mean they should be paying us to look after them? :lol:

 

[Hoppa1874]

well this is very interesting .. and i'd also like to commend everyone for keeping their cool and actually having a decent debate..very civilized ppl!!!
I can see both sides to this story too, and i'm not sure how many ppl read the other thread where i said i had taken my snake to the kids classes to show their class and give a talk about snakes.. cos we live in the bush, these kids see a lot of snakes around and most of their parents run them over, so quite a few kids tell me.. i know realise that this is against the law and havent done so since, but i thought it was a good thing to do to educate these kids.. i didnt let them handle my snake altho if they washed their hands i said they cood touch it so they found out it was wet or slimy..anyway.. my point is i would like to be able to do this, take them to places for education occasionally wifout having to go to the expense of having a exhibitors permit cos it woodnt be a regular thing.. and the places like to the kids school is only 5 k's from my home so not to stressful on the snakes and no others ppl's snakes are there and the snake only came out in the classroom for about 15 minutes, so i cant see it infecting any wild populations or anything, note they were also driven there in the security of a click clack, so they coodnt escape..and it really was the best thing for the kids..they enjoyed it and were educated, they all washed their hands again after touching my snake too so i see nothing really wrong wif it.. i do agree wif the whole quarantine isssue thing too cris. its a hard one.. both sides are very relevant..JMHO

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

i agree, both sides are relevant

 

[swingonthespiral]

I think it would be hard on the animals, they are not like dogs and cats etc in the fact they are not sociable and most really don't like being held and carted around.

i did politely ask for this not to turn into one of those debates so this comment on this thread is irrelevant (so cant spell today) and congrats to everyone that has kept this civil woohoo!!! lol

Aslan i understand what ur saying but again wouldnt it be ur choice to come in contact with that person.... i dont really know how OPMV works so if u could enlighten me on how it is transmitted perhaps that could come into factor with my opinion...

How many dieases do we all carry everyday that could potentially effect the native population??? and would an outbreak of OPMV have as much effect on the natives than say a feral cat..... as i said i dont know much about OPMV i am genuinely asking a question...

thanks