Notice to timewasters.

[Helikaon]

yes but we all know that there are plenty of ppl, who email you with absolutely no intention of buying at all, and still want to waste your time. i personnally dont want to be taking individual pics from different angles of 30 coastals then uploading them into and email them, for the person to go well i actually dont have a license yet can i still buy it? or sorry dont have nay money for 2 months i'll email you back then and never hear from them again. now if this person emailed me after seeing the add and said hey i'm hoping to get a coastal hatchy in a few months, just wondering if you'd be willing to show me some hatchy pics and let me know what they are like and how to keep them then i would be happy to help. i personally would like to be treated as a buyer as i treat a seller. yes i like to see what i am buying, and i commit to the buy if it is what i want and organise a pick up time suitable. i then call them the day i am to arrive to get their address and with a eta. is it really so much to ask. if its not what i want then thank them and be on my way.

the only good thing i find about the first picture hunter, is i then have a whole list of uploaded images to copy and paste into the next picture hunter email. gets a bit less irritating that way.

 

[Londos1990]

I agree, who gets to put a price on a species anyway, its all opinion and preception, obviously someone who breeds something with extradinary colours is gonna bump the price up, but its gonna be by opinion on whether they have asked to much or not.

 

[Notorious_Guf]

I agree with your comments in the first paragraph but not with the rest of it.

Breeders / sellers can offer their animals at whatever price they want to - if their animals don't sell and they get stuck with them - it's their problem, not the buyer's. Is there any need for increasing the numbers in captivity? There is a thread on other forum where a breeder referred to intergrades (that he bred) as "worthless" and if they didn't hatch alive, he would have thrown the carcasses to his mate's black-headeds. Nice!
What is an "extremely high price"? It's a matter of perception, a person's financial position and desire for luxury things. Do you think that Ferrari should cost the same as Mazda? After all, they are just cars.... How much cost a pure bred German Sheppard?
If all species of reptiles were available and dirt cheap - THAT would be detrimental to the hobby as many would treat them as the "worthless intergrades"

I actually agree with you, I wasn't suggesting that people go out and sell their animals off cheap, I was simply trying to reinforce the point that people asking questions and discounts are not a detriment to the Hobby.

Thanks everyone for your civil replies, I had my doubts haha....

 

[Notorious_Guf]

yes but we all know that there are plenty of ppl, who email you with absolutely no intention of buying at all, and still want to waste your time. i personnally dont want to be taking individual pics from different angles of 30 coastals then uploading them into and email them, for the person to go well i actually dont have a license yet can i still buy it? or sorry dont have nay money for 2 months i'll email you back then and never hear from them again. now if this person emailed me after seeing the add and said hey i'm hoping to get a coastal hatchy in a few months, just wondering if you'd be willing to show me some hatchy pics and let me know what they are like and how to keep them then i would be happy to help. i personally would like to be treated as a buyer as i treat a seller. yes i like to see what i am buying, and i commit to the buy if it is what i want and organise a pick up time suitable. i then call them the day i am to arrive to get their address and with a eta. is it really so much to ask. if its not what i want then thank them and be on my way.

the only good thing i find about the first picture hunter, is i then have a whole list of uploaded images to copy and paste into the next picture hunter email. gets a bit less irritating that way.

Please don't forget that we are talking about selling on an Internet Forum, there are a lot of people who don't have the ability to write in a friendly manner, many don't want to waste their time with niceties either. Internet selling is not a particularly personal medium. If you were in a retail store it would be a whole different story, yet you would still have your customers who ask for a cheaper price even before they know what they are buying, it's their way of communicating.

I deal with a few online retailers of audio products and I can tell you they receive the exact same treatment...

 

[Waterrat]

I actually agree with you, I wasn't suggesting that people go out and sell their animals off cheap, I was simply trying to reinforce the point that people asking questions and discounts are not a detriment to the Hobby.

Thanks everyone for your civil replies, I had my doubts haha....

I agree with that too, my point is, it comes down to ethics on both sides. If I was to purchase a snake advertised for certain price, I would make sure that:
1/ I really want this species
2/ I have the money (as advertised)
3/ I have the appropriate licence, etc..

Only then I would be asking questions, wanting to see photos and talk discount. I wouldn't be at all offended in the seller asked me about my experience, set up, etc.. That is what I meant by 'opening an intelligent dialog" (sorry Wheezer, I am at it again).

 

[Hooglabah]

i hate it when your really excited that your finally getting a new snake and you car battery dies and you need to spend the money for the animal on a marshall call out, i felt so guilty and dissapointed

 

[girdheinz]

I fixed this problem a long time ago. I choose who i want to sell to, not the other way around. Not everyone deserves my animals and i have the right to only let them go where i know they will be cared for and with a person who is educated enough to do it justice. I have made some write essays an display pictures of their set-ups. When people go to these extremes they are often suprised about the discount i give or the endless hours of back up service i provide.

3/4 of the comments in these threads come from people who have never bred anything and who couldn't comprehend the level of skill involved in incubating and raising hatchlings (the cost of mice and rats or the effort breeding your own). There is very few people who make massive profit from the hobby, lucky most do it for the love.

The only reason animals have become significantly cheaper is because of the battery style production of some larger breeding groups. The individual breeder can in no way match these prices but everyone expects them to and whinges when they don't. I will buy everytime from the individuals, for starters your not playing russian roulette, battery style production facilities sourcing animals from all over, are a high disease risk IMO. If the breeder is well known have good feedback and pay attention to detail, then this is a far more satisfying prospect for me and i would gladly pay $300 more per animal. I have and i will continue to do so.

No animosity to those who want cheap animals, go for it, when someone haggles or says my animal is to expensive i encourage them to go and buy their animal from one of these facilities. I'd much rather give my animals away for free than to someone who wants to cut corners and i have and will continue to do so. Best part is i seem to sell out every year and never change my prices, something must be working.

Gird

 

[wranga]

so would buyers prefer that sellers bump their prices up so they can knock them down so they feel like their got a bargin or just advertise their best sale price and stop all the stuffing around???

 

[Waterrat]

I fixed this problem a long time ago. I choose who i want to sell to, not the other way around. Not everyone deserves my animals and i have the right to only let them go where i know they will be cared for and with a person who is educated enough to do it justice. I have made some write essays an display pictures of their set-ups. When people go to these extremes they are often suprised about the discount i give or the endless hours of back up service i provide.

3/4 of the comments in these threads come from people who have never bred anything and who couldn't comprehend the level of skill involved in incubating and raising hatchlings (the cost of mice and rats or the effort breeding your own). There is very few people who make massive profit from the hobby, lucky most do it for the love.

The only reason animals have become significantly cheaper is because of the battery style production of some larger breeding groups. The individual breeder can in no way match these prices but everyone expects them to and whinges when they don't. I will buy everytime from the individuals, for starters your not playing russian roulette, battery style production facilities sourcing animals from all over, are a high disease risk IMO. If the breeder is well known have good feedback and pay attention to detail, then this is a far more satisfying prospect for me and i would gladly pay $300 more per animal. I have and i will continue to do so.

No animosity to those who want cheap animals, go for it, when someone haggles or says my animal is to expensive i encourage them to go and buy their animal from one of these facilities. I'd much rather give my animals away for free than to someone who wants to cut corners and i have and will continue to do so. Best part is i seem to sell out every year and never change my prices, something must be working.

Gird

Ditto.
Well said Gerd.


Wranga, buyers should choose - there is a huge variety of reptiles at various prices to choose from. If the buyer wants to buy from a particular breeder (for whatever reason) then he should be prepared to accept the breeder's price (or go elsewhere).

 

[Freeloader]

At the end of the day i do not and never will, object to giving people pictures or information about the animal i am selling. What i do object to is the emails and pms you get with an offer of half the advertised price, expecting you to pay the freight or the situation where you do discount the price and the person doesn't turn up or respond to your emails.

 

[Weezer]

I can totally understand the frustration that Freeloader just described, and Wranga I think that a few of these probs would be eliminated if the EOI's or "make a reasonable offer" etc were replaced with a realistic ballpark figure for an animal..

And it is true that we can't match the prices of the larger breeders because the bulk feeding costs, the established pens, and the running costs for a large breeder vs a privateer are significantly less for the big guys per head, so of course prices need to be a little higher- and I prefer to buy outside of the usual suspects because in my experience the larger (unnamed) breeders generally send me an animal that has rarely been handled or given the same attention that a private smaller breeder can manage, just due to the sheer numbers a big breeder pumps out for the almighty payoff. So I end up with a skittish animal that is underweight and nervous, that has never seen a large water bowl or a vegetable.

When i write to a breeder- I let them know I am an APS member, that I am serious, that i have the money and appropriate licence, that i would like to know freight to Brisvegas, that i have the enclosure set up, that I have also approached a couple of other breeders (just so there's no problem if I do not reply immediately) and whether I have a mate waiting from him/her.

but not everyone can type at 80 wpm or have the social skills or IQ to manage all of that in an opening email- so there has to be a little understanding as well- breeders generally get a free ad with a site or forum that is already established and has a siginificant number of hits- so asking for a little patience is not out of the realm of expectancy, is it ?

but as i have said, the majority of these problems can be avoided with a full disclosure of information. All you breeders know what that entails:

CLEAR pictures
parentage
feeding habits
length
age
a BALLPARK figure
freight costs to majors
an ETA for processing of licences etc

and anything the seller WILL NOT do (price ranges, freight limits, more pics)

in the time it has taken me to write this post, almost all of the above can be pumped into a thread and save a wall of silly emails and tyre kickers.

Easy.

 

[Rox.n.Lix]

i have been toying with the idea of getting another snake and even asked in the WTB section, detiling the specifics of the animal i was after (it was a pretty specific locale/look). i was contacted by a breeder who offered to send me photos of mum and dad of upcoming hatchlings. i replied enthusiastically, but did not want to "lead on" the breeder so i said: honestly at this stage i may just be tyre kicking, but i would love to see some pics.
the way i feel about it, if i see a snake like the one i have seen and liked, then i may fall in love and commit to buying. instead, i got no reply. at all.

here is my analogy: i want a new pair of shoes. i want boots. i want boots with a heel but not a big heel, just a comfortable heel, blah blah....
i might have to wait months before i find the boots i have pictured in my head. just because i've decided i want boots, doesnt mean i'm going to go into shop #1 and buy the first pair of boots i see. some people just like to shop around until they see "the one". the one you just have to have.

i think its unfair to tell people they cant "shop around"?

 

[Waterrat]

It's good to see that there is a general agreement, at least it looks like it to me.
This post is important to both buyers and sellers, after all, it shouldn't be "us and them" as most of us buy and sell at some time.
One needs to listen and learn. When I first advertised my snakes, I described them as the most rare, beautiful, docile, this and that and now I know it's all crap that only an idiot would respond to by buying. I totally agree with the statements above, advertisements should be succinct, informative and factual. They can be enhanced by good quality pictures attached to the and no bull....!

I ask potential buyers for their phone number, so I can ring them and have a chat because some people feel easier talking rather than writing, whilst on the other hand, tyre kickers prefer non-personal emails because they can be more confrontational. Each to their own.

Cheers
Michael

 

[matt86]

The only people that think that reptiles are over priced are the ones that can't afford them.
Oh yes and all the whingers that wont outlay to start a breeding program.

I totally agree. I get so tired of the fools who whinge about price, or put breeders down for 'caring about their wallets.'

People have the right to make money out of their breeding efforts... and not just make back what they spent on heating, air conditioning, food, substrate, containers, etc, etc, etc. It's like telling an author to write a book, and give out free copies because he should be doing it 'for the love of writing, not for money.' GROW UP PEOPLE!

If people didn't breed their animals, YOU wouldn't have your pets... think about that before you get on here and moan and whinge. I paid $250 for a coastal... a lot of people would consider that 'overpriced,' but you know what... it didn't have IBD, or OPMV, or MITES, or any issues WHATSOEVER... it was from a trusted breeder, and years down the track, I could still call him if I wanted to... It's like buying from a store, compared to buying off the back of a truck... you pay for the quality and reputation of the seller too.

 

[wranga]

I can totally understand the frustration that Freeloader just described, and Wranga I think that a few of these probs would be eliminated if the EOI's or "make a reasonable offer" etc were replaced with a realistic ballpark figure for an animal..

Easy.

too me its very simple, if people stop replying the ads of "make a reasonable offer" or "EOI" then sellers will be forced to advertise the price that they want instead of hoping that there is a dummy out there that will pay them more than they want or their animal is worth.

 

[Wild~Touch]

Apologies

well i can tell u that if im forking out some good cash - then 9 out of 10 times i want to see atleast a picture of the animal im buying .......

Re: Laxettes

I do apologise I should have included this is after the prospective buyer has already had access to the pic in the original adv.

Cheers
Sandee

 

[matt86]

so would buyers prefer that sellers bump their prices up so they can knock them down so they feel like their got a bargin or just advertise their best sale price and stop all the stuffing around???

Wranga... LOL... I was in stitches reading that...
I used to work at The Good Guys... The amount of idiots who come in when something is on a huge special, and whinge that they can't get much more off... But if the item had been at its original price (hundreds more) you could have sold it to them at a higher cost than the sale price and they'd be happy...

People just suck like that lol.

 

[snakehandler]

So does this mean that everyone here stating that people should accept the advertised price will not go into a store and haggle the price...of course not....there is no harm in asking the question, if you really want the animal then you ask for photos, discount etc and then agree on what the seller offers or straight out say no thank you!

I will ALWAYS ask if this is the best price they can do, I will always ask for photos, without tyre kickers, how are you going to sell a product.

We have people contact us all the time for our services, ask for discounts and deals, we then negotiate where we can to secure the transaction, sometimes we will drop our price, other times we will not, but if a person doesnt ask the question how will they ever know?

 

[Londos1990]

Sometimes people are looking to clear out and make space, when people make offers sometimes people will jump at it just to secure a deal and move on there young ones.
Sometimes it aint much of a knock off and its a win/win situation.

 

[No-two]

I fixed this problem a long time ago. I choose who i want to sell to, not the other way around. Not everyone deserves my animals and i have the right to only let them go where i know they will be cared for and with a person who is educated enough to do it justice. I have made some write essays an display pictures of their set-ups. When people go to these extremes they are often suprised about the discount i give or the endless hours of back up service i provide.

3/4 of the comments in these threads come from people who have never bred anything and who couldn't comprehend the level of skill involved in incubating and raising hatchlings (the cost of mice and rats or the effort breeding your own). There is very few people who make massive profit from the hobby, lucky most do it for the love.

The only reason animals have become significantly cheaper is because of the battery style production of some larger breeding groups. The individual breeder can in no way match these prices but everyone expects them to and whinges when they don't. I will buy everytime from the individuals, for starters your not playing russian roulette, battery style production facilities sourcing animals from all over, are a high disease risk IMO. If the breeder is well known have good feedback and pay attention to detail, then this is a far more satisfying prospect for me and i would gladly pay $300 more per animal. I have and i will continue to do so.

No animosity to those who want cheap animals, go for it, when someone haggles or says my animal is to expensive i encourage them to go and buy their animal from one of these facilities. I'd much rather give my animals away for free than to someone who wants to cut corners and i have and will continue to do so. Best part is i seem to sell out every year and never change my prices, something must be working.

Gird

Very well said Grid.

Several times I have told people an animal is sold or no longer avalible due to the content of their emails, if you say to them 'I don't want to sell to you' it generally doesn't end there, but saying "It's no longer avalible" always helps.

Buyers need to understand that they are not doing 'us' a favour by buying our animals, I love it when things move fast because I allready have enough animals to look after but I'd rather be 'stuck' with hatchies then sell them to the wrong person.

I don't re-ply to text messages (I found theres a high number of tyre kickers with them, people that really want the animals generally call).

I often get people asking for pictures of the entire clutch even though I havn't advertised the amount in the cltuch for a reason, or if it's a large clutch and they're muchly the same it gets a bit much.

I think it's dangerous to be a family member of someone buying a reptile, because no matter what something is going to happen to you the day they're meant to pick the animal up, it's never a graized elbow either, it's allways extravigant, it's as if the more danger involved in the story the more realitic it becomes, I've had people not show up for many 'family reasons' such as a car accident, cancer, death, had to fly to hong kong because my mail order bride got held up in the post, ect ect.