Ok all you Diamond Experts

[mrsshep77]

Pugsly there are some gorgeous Dp's and Port Mac's in that lot!!! Me personally I think there can be some stunning Port Mac's but people still think they are hybrids or an unnatural intergrade... :shock:..... but it's the same as coastals they are the same species just different locale!

Each species have huge varients between locales.... Jungles, Coastals, Stimmi's etc etc so why do people make such a big deal out of Dp's and PM's?????? They are in effect the same just different locale!!!

Anyway enough of my rant...... Pugsly IYO what do you think this girl is????? And I'd love to hear other people's thoughts as well... oh and please NO comments about mites....... she didn't have them and it was taken in winter so she wasn't over heating.... just having a moment as she was only in there for about 10mins then had enough!!! hehe!!!

Cheers,
Mell

 

[cris]

The point is we dont know where they are collected from, apart from your word i have no reason to believe they arnt hybrids(i do believe you though). IMO if they are all loaclity specific they would be intergrades and diamonds. Unless they all came from port mac. Or do you see the integrades as a seperate subspecies?

Integrades look exactly the same as some hybrids, the only way to know is if you trust the breeder or have collected them yourself. We will now just get owners of coastalxintegrade, diamondx integrade, coastal xdiamonds all calling them "port macs" now because they can sell them for more. When in actually fact they probaby came from a location nowhere near port mac. IMO calling them port macs makes more problems than it solves, what wrong with accurately desribing them as integrades originating from ___ locality?

 

[ALLANA]

Im happy enough to call that a nice diamond Alana.

In the other pic looked (from the angle) like the rosettes where joined and seemed in a straight line rather than side by side.

I think you have a nice one there, thanks for the new pic.

No worries
I'll attach another pic of the Yellow/Orange girl which is the one bred by John smith, I will try today to get new photo's of all of them from above so we can all get a good look at them.
Yellow/orange girl
View attachment 30253

 

[dickyknee]

Hi Pugs, I'm a bit confused now, picture no7 is what you said is a diamond for shore (second lot of pictures posted second from the top left) but her rosettes are bigger, I've attatched another photo of the yellow girl and her rosetts are quite simular to that one. This is the female that wasn't bred by John Smith, she was brought from QLD, from a lady that only had her and she's not orange. I'm just trying to understand it all thanks

View attachment 30252

I would call that a diamond .....but i am no expert .....

 

[pugsly]

"Integrades look exactly the same as some hybrids, the only way to know is if you trust the breeder or have collected them yourself. We will now just get owners of coastalxintegrade, diamondx integrade, coastal xdiamonds all calling them "port macs" now because they can sell them for more. When in actually fact they probaby came from a location nowhere near port mac"

Couldn't agree more.

"IMO calling them port macs makes more problems than it solves, what wrong with accurately desribing them as integrades originating from ___ locality?"

I dont agree here, as Port Macs is just a term which is starting to be used to ge rid of the 'intergrade' tag which gives people, epecially new keepers, the idea there not pure animals, when they are.

I am happy to call them _____ locality Carpets, just like we are starting to see with all the Womas, doesnt bother me at all, but it seems a little easier to come up with a name to put them into, Port Mac is one idea. Call them upper Central Coast Carpets I dont mind mate.

 

[Colin]

that number 10 pic diamond is a cracker pugs

 

[pugsly]

Thanks mate, she sure is. Has a white tongue too lol.

Alana, I still believe that one is an intergrade. The Rosettes, the colour, the striping down the sides, all indicate that it is not a pure Diamond.

Just my opinion

 

[Goannas1]

i love it wen the Diamond Experts jump in

 

[dickyknee]

i love it wen the Diamond Experts jump in

Well the thread is directed at the "diamond experts " :lol:

 

[pugsly]

MrsShep77

Thats a cracker of a Diamond.. I have a male almost Identical, she for sale?! lol

Beauty

 

[cris]

I think they should be called integrades as the gradually change accross their range, otherwise someone needs to set out an exact line where a diamond changes into a "port mac"(or whatever name you give the integrades). Even if you can set up some magical border something 100m on one side being a diamond bred with a "port mac" from 100m on the other side of the line is hardly going to be an unnatural hybrid. While if you classify them all as "port macs" breeding one from the sourthern extent of the "port mac" with one from the northern most area will definately be an unnatural hybrid.

IMO Calling them integrades from a specific locality is the only way we can hope to keep these animals pure. Considering the rate of captives escaping many of the wild populations will become more polluted than captive lines in the future.

If ppl cant get their head around the concept of integrades existing on the boudaries of 2 differant species, subspecies or even clearly defined locality types they should take up knitting or something instead of breeding snakes...JMO

 

[mrsshep77]

MrsShep77

Thats a cracker of a Diamond.. I have a male almost Identical, she for sale?! lol

Beauty

Thanks Pugs...... NOOOOOO definately not for sale.... no amount of money could be offered for her!!!!

Oh and that's not even her best pic it just was to show the rosettes!!!!
Thanks
Mell

 

[Goannas1]

Well the thread is directed at the "diamond experts " :lol:

yes i know that

 

[pugsly]

You make some good points there Cris,

My head hurts to much to think about any other responses for now lol!

But Im happy to call a Telegraph Point Carpet a Telegraph Point Carpet etc etc

 

[Colin]

You make some good points there Cris,

My head hurts to much to think about any other responses for now lol!

But Im happy to call a Telegraph Point Carpet a Telegraph Point Carpet etc etc

I prefer to call them 'mid north coast carpets" as it covers the whole mid north coast range and if the actual specific locale is known..

mid north coast carpet, telegraph point locale

 

[pugsly]

Yep, either or, Im easy lol

 

[Australis]

I am happy to call them _____ locality Carpets, just like we are starting to see with all the Womas, doesnt bother me at all, but it seems a little easier to come up with a name to put them into, Port Mac is one idea. Call them upper Central Coast Carpets I dont mind mate.

A bit pedantic but.....

Considering Port Macquarie isnt on the Central Coast at all, it would be more appropriate to say Lower (mid)North coast, if not Mid North Coast.

The Central Coast region as far as im concerned doesnt extend much futher north than Catherine Hill Bay.

People from Sydney talking about intergrade/diamond borders seem to think it goes a hell of alot further North than this for some reason including you pugsly

 

[richardsc]

im no expert but id say last 2 pures,i assumed diamonds had around 7ish scales in each diamond mark on there backs,there the best looking ones as well,for me anyways,oh and hybrids are just as prone to dps,and yeah as was said by cris unless u know for sure the history can u be totally sure what u have,im sure some hybrids look like pures,and u cant trust what some people say it is,a great thread though,interesting to read everyones thoughts

 

[Col J]

I've been wanting to ask a question for a long time, but have avoided it, due to the risk of perpetuating the same old argument. Looks like this thread is pretty constructive with some experienced keepers on board, as well as those of us willing to learn, so here goes. . .

Can someone post photos of DP's & intergrades from the various localities, from south coast through to Qld border which can show the natural progression from true DP's to intergrades, to true Coastal Carpets. These would obviously be representative individuals from those localities. I'm sure everyone accepts that there are differences in individuals from the same locale.

It's good to see this thread going in the right direction.

Col J

 

[pugsly]

Hi mate,

I would be happy to do that for you. What you will find though, is people will show how there are exceptions to the 'rules'.

I can show you a Diamond from Wollongong, almost Jet black and a Diamond from Gosford unbelievable gold. But then I can also show you a Diamond from Gosford jet black, and a Wollongong high gold..

What you DO notice though, is the Rosettes changing. from very small so getting larger and then joined. Then you start to see the Coastal colours appear.

Problem also with the carpets, I have seen (from the same clutch) a Coffs Carpet look like a Jungle x Diamond, and the other look like a perfect example of a Coastal. Weird hey!

Ill have a play on the weekend and see what I can show you though.