Possible inclusion body diseae (ibd) outbreak

[tenacres1100]

Colin, unfortunalty most people that buy from pet/reptile shops are first time pyhton owners buying for a child or themselves and know nothing about mites or diseases that they can carry:cry:
Maybe when appling for a licence a warning to new would be owners should be given, so they can make informed decisions

 

[scout]

I find it amusing/disturbing that when some one mentions the possibility that they have contracted one of these diseases, they are attacked from all levels. The cold hard fact is that these diseases are out there. Due to the fact that there is not a lot of CONCRETE evidence on how it is either transmitted or how long it can stay dorment means it will be almost impossible to stop. It is not productive to attack people who are mentioning that they have had(possible) contact with these diseases. If every person kept quiet, then the disease would spread more quickly. Isnt it better to know where the disease is turning up so potential buyers can be more diligent when purchasing and quarrenteeing a reptile. It would also put a stop to these sellers who knowingly are selling infected stock. If they dont have buyers they can not sell infected stock into other collections where it will spread further. If we dont do some thing soon we will loose all our herps over a period of time. Wouldnt it be more productive instead being negative to pull together and possibly fund research programs to help find solutions. if every one put in a little we may in a few years come up with a vaccine or medication to erradicateor cure these nasties.

 

[elapid66]

I agree completely.

I think you took my post the wrong way.
My point was that most with expensive collections quarantine the right way. Which is in a separate dwelling to the one the main collection is housed.
I said usually, because its not always the case.

Alot of people seem to think that to quarantine just means to keep in a separate room and wash hands between handling or interacting. This is not the case.

I was in no way defending the seller, i find their response to HR from the word go disgusting, and it took a somewhat public flaming (although the name couldn't be mentioned in the threads, majority know who the seller is) to get some action.

I have never and will never deal with this seller, i have always found their practices appalling, as well as their public displays and failure to be sure those they are 'teaching' understand the full consequences in dealing with certain snakes.

At the same time, HR cant just jump the gun and blame the seller until all possible reasons have been covered/ruled out.

For example, transmission from the vet, which i might add, seems to have been ignored.

pm me the name of the seller because i think you have the wrong dude

 

[Colin]

Colin, unfortunalty most people that buy from pet/reptile shops are first time pyhton owners buying for a child or themselves and know nothing about mites or diseases that they can carry:cry:

yes I know... but I still feel the need to rant on this subject

 

[channi]

HR if I was you I would be concerned that I may have infected the breeders stock. It is a distinct possibility. As there is so little understanding about either of these diseases you seem to be throwing alot of mud. I do not know who this breeder is neither do I care. All you know for a fact about his stock is that some of them are infected with a heavy dose of worms, not that they are carrying a potentially fatal virus. By sending the sick snake back you may have actually introduced the virus to his stock, I hope for your sake that this is not the case. I am not saying that you are right or wrong but to be careful about what you say. If after all of these accusations it is proven that his stock have shown no symtoms until a little while after you returned the snake it may be that you will have to face legal proceedures. Just a thought.

 

[elapid66]

HR if I was you I would be concerned that I may have infected the breeders stock. It is a distinct possibility. As there is so little understanding about either of these diseases you seem to be throwing alot of mud. I do not know who this breeder is neither do I care. All you know for a fact about his stock is that some of them are infected with a heavy dose of worms, not that they are carrying a potentially fatal virus. By sending the sick snake back you may have actually introduced the virus to his stock, I hope for your sake that this is not the case. I am not saying that you are right or wrong but to be careful about what you say. If after all of these accusations it is proven that his stock have shown no symtoms until a little while after you returned the snake it may be that you will have to face legal proceedures. Just a thought.

spot on

 

[horsesrule]

Because some of us can afford to buy good clean reptiles, rather then go to a shop and buy crap quality diseas ridden animals.

Maybe if you were buying womas or gtps you'd have thought about who you were buying from and bought quality.

They're not allowed to sell womas and gtps in shops so if you'd spent the money you'd be scott free and we wouldn't have to read all these ridiculous comments.

I'm not at all saying it's the sellers problem either, you should've quarantined better, and you're jumping the gun way to fast. I hope it turns out a problem to do with the excessive mite spray treatment. They're chemicals, you shouldn't use them unless you 99.9% have to.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I have to agree with others, for someone who's had herps for 20years you don't know much.

Mmm another know it all at 16

 

[horsesrule]

i have just sat and read every post in this thread and now have a headache,but the few things i have taken from it is there is no proof and it will be very hard to obtain such evidence,and that is what is needed as you dont win court cases on probabilities and speculation.the second point i would like to make is you need to be EXTREMELY careful from here on in horsesrule as i believe you are treading a very fineline and are coming quite close to finding yourself in court on a defimation matter as you are making huge accusations without any hard evidence to back it up.anyway thats my 2 cents worth and eagerly wait to see where the moderators allow this to go

No ones been named here.

 

[tenacres1100]

HR if I was you I would be concerned that I may have infected the breeders stock. It is a distinct possibility. As there is so little understanding about either of these diseases you seem to be throwing alot of mud. I do not know who this breeder is neither do I care. All you know for a fact about his stock is that some of them are infected with a heavy dose of worms, not that they are carrying a potentially fatal virus. By sending the sick snake back you may have actually introduced the virus to his stock, I hope for your sake that this is not the case. I am not saying that you are right or wrong but to be careful about what you say. If after all of these accusations it is proven that his stock have shown no symtoms until a little while after you returned the snake it may be that you will have to face legal proceedures. Just a thought.

sorry but reguardless of where the disease came from, thats not her fault that she was sold a sick snake and if the so called breeder took it back he should have quarantined it!!!!!

 

[Chappy]

sorry but reguardless of where the disease came from, thats not her fault that she was sold a sick snake and if the so called breeder took it back he should have quarantined it!!!!!

Here here x 2. I find it astounding that the breeder took back the sick worm infested snake and as HR said had it in and out of the bag numerous times around other snakes in the store. That to me is quite a worry. :shock: I cannot possibly see how HR could be responsible for contaminating his collection. In case people have forgotten the sick CAME FROM HIM in the first place!

 

[tenacres1100]

spot on

does your mate, when he buys from all over the country quarantine them before selling them on to everyone? :shock:

 

[horsesrule]

Here here x 2. I find it astounding that the breeder took back the sick worm infested snake and as HR said had it in and out of the bag numerous times around other snakes in the store. That to me is quite a worry. :shock: I cannot possibly see how HR could be responsible for contaminating his collection. In case people have forgotten the sick CAME FROM HIM in the first place!

Exactly.

 

[Kersten]

Sure, he on sells after less than the minimum 6 month period (by his own admission)....that's good quarantining, right?

 

[channi]

sorry but reguardless of where the disease came from, thats not her fault that she was sold a sick snake and if the so called breeder took it back he should have quarantined it!!!!!

Yes and she should have quarentined hers so what is your point exactly? If the snake became infected at her house and was sent back it would be infected because of poor quarentine.

 

[tenacres1100]

Sure, he on sells after less than the minimum 6 month period (by his own admission)....that's good quarantining, right?

when we got our first from a shop (yes I know now) it came from the breeder to this guy to the shop we got it from in less than 3 weeks!!!!
thats quarantining for you:evil:

 

[horsesrule]

I have not in any post said 100% that i know for certain that it came from this seller.

I should state though for the record the following facts.

I actually paid above the going price for the animal i could have got one a lot cheaper of petlink.

Also as far as legal proceedings against me go i am not concerned.

There has been no defamation

Defences for defamation

Justification/Contextual truth
This is a complete defence in Victoria, regardless of how damaging a statement may be to a person's reputation.

Defence of Honest opinion
Where the defamatory matter complained of is proven to be an expression of opinion honestly held by the author rather than as a statement of fact.

Further to all this if the seller decided to take legal action i am sure that many people would come out of the wood work with past grievances so that wont be positive for the seller.

Any legal action i decide to take will only happen if there is a strong case to take forward once we get to the bottom of what the hell is going on.

I stated that from the beggining.

 

[tenacres1100]

Yes and she should have quarentined hers so what is your point exactly? If the snake became infected at her house and was sent back it would be infected because of poor quarentine.

so if HE quarentined he doesn't have a problem does he?

 

[horsesrule]

Yes and she should have quarentined hers so what is your point exactly? If the snake became infected at her house and was sent back it would be infected because of poor quarentine.

The snake returned had issues and was sick, now we can debate and speculate what it had but rather than that lets just all agree it had something wrong with it.

It was seen by a vet prescribed worm treatment, weighed it was underweight for its size.

It then would not eat.

Started acting funny then was returned.

Approx 2 weeks after it was returned i noticed the first animal of mine sick and then about a week after that the second.

I dont know what the hell happened to the snake after i left and to be honest i dont care.

Just like im sure the seller does not care whats now happening to us.

 

[channi]

so if HE quarentined he doesn't have a problem does he?

And had she quarentined she doesn't have a problem does she, your arguments are poor please give up. I did not say any thing bad about HR (I do not know her or have anything against her) I said be careful, do not let your emotions run away with you.

 

[horsesrule]

Bottom line is the 2 snakes that were purchased were quarantined.

Its not possible to have a bio med quarantine set up in a suburban house.

If i do have an outbreak of one of the 2 most likely diseases mentioned here and it is airborne then there was nothing i could have done.

As i said in a previous post unless you have a nuclear bunker style set up where all the air is filtered then there is no way of being 100% certain that your quarantine set up is enough.