Primary school teachers

[slim6y]

I think that rather than repeating... my post at 9:20pm says exactly how I feel on this matter.

 

[Vat69]

I disagree sorry.
It's the fact that someone who teaches kids goes out and deliberately breaks the law and does not see that as wrong that I have a problem with.
This person clearly makes no secret of the fact, otherwise how would Cris know?
You cannot say that just because you disagree with the law, breaking it is not important, the law is the law. There are quite a few laws I don't agree with, I don't go breaking them though, I respect our countries legal system.
That sort of attitude is imparted in the classroom, whether you mean to or not.
As to occasional use of e being better than addiction to cigarettes? Compare apples to apples please, how would taking e 20 times a day effect you do you reckon?

I agree with what you're getting at for the most part and I'm certainly not at all saying I think what this teacher is doing is a good thing, nor am I suggesting that E being illegal is bad thing. But we're talking about (well me anyway) is what is a bad role model for school kids. I compared E to the example of cigarettes because not only have teachers been seen partaking in smoking by students, I believe that the recreational use of the former behind closed doors (or atleast used in a way that in no way directly affects the children) is not as bad as being seen using the latter (because you don't usually take 20 E's a day, but smoking usually leads to a many times a day habit which leads to definate problems and stinkiness). If they are a 'responsible user' (they exist right?) there is less chance of them developing any mental problems from their use of E as opposed to the definate problems smoking causes. Let me be clear when I say of course any drug use at all can lead to major problems.
In closing I don't think the teacher should be taking drugs but they are and in considering the drug in question and the fact that it is only being used recreationally and in a way which has not affected their students (I assume) I don't think it's something to get overly uppy about when kids see their role models smoking. Personally I believe that smoking cigarettes should be made illegal.

As for the law breaking bit of course no-one should do that I totally agree. But I think the post directly below your last one answers that well. Also they're a fool for talking openly about it. Clearly it weakens the whole 'behind closed doors' argument

 

[Earthling]

Earthling... Education - yes.. Education... good call... and truthful... why lock these drug users up in jail.. they haven't done anythnig wrong, essentially, they just used the end product... it's the manufacturers we need to get... they need educating... About the damage they're doing to some of these young people.

Education - yes, and where better to start than a teacher smacked out on E... Good call

But - education is our only weapon... It's true... But unfortunately - some people just aren't ready to hear the truth or make these choices and they become beneficiaries of a society that allows the weak and needy to survive...

I see people in the parks sniffing glue... petrol.. solvents... sniffing spray cans... are they going to be educated - I am sure if the 12 year old was AT school they might have education.. but their social network is so broken down that they can't even get to school...

it's a dreamworld... I live in it... I miss seeing most of the bad and injustice in this world... But I can't see how a teacher on E can help educating our impressionable about the dangers of drugs, alcohol and sniffing solvents...

wow... Did I say that without the use of speed?

Education is the answer when you accept that drug use is going to happen. Good that you agree.
Accepting drug use and healthy drug use education does not automatically mean it will stop drug use.....didnt we just accept that drug use is going to happen?
As happens today, people as you suggest selfabuse with their drug use and this will continue. We can educate and offer support to all individuals however its up to them if they accept it or not.
As to educating the growers and dealers ...they are just doing simple economic truth taught at school. Supply and Demand. As long as people demand.....people will supply.

 

[Magpie]

Interesting sentence Slim.
I think you and others can accept that members of our society want to and will take drugs. So what do we do with this knowledge that its going to definetly happen? We could do as we have been doing for the last...well since laws against drugs first arrived, but that hasnt solved the problem has it? Unhealthy drug use is still occuring....

Perhaps we should openly start killing all known drug users to scourge the planet of this scum! Mmmmm...sounding a bit like Hitler their.

Well we know people are going to take drugs....we cant stop them..hell weve tried for years and it hasnt worked...we even legalise some drugs and the problems are still their.....
If we know people are going to use drugs what would happen if we accepted that and put in proactive measures to assist people in making the best possible choices about their drug use. In a word Educate. Educate people about drug use and their body and signs to look for of damaging effects and also support to come clean if and when they decide to.

We can live in a me good them baaaaad mentality or we can choose to accept that something is going to happen and deal with it.

Does that answer your last statement a little cris. Hope so.
Education.

I think we can accept that spousal abuse has always happened and will always happen, no matter what the legal deterents. Let's make it legal and educate young men on the best ways not to beat their wives.

Have I ever sped? Yes I have, as a teen i used to speed quite regularly. Now I only ever speed as an accident, i certainly don't go and spend large amounts of money to be able to do so then brag about it on a suaturday night. Double park? No. Jaywalk? No, I use a crossing if it's available.

My point with cigarettes to e's is that you cannot compare a once a week drug with a 20 times a day drug in terms of effects. Smoking once a week is not going to have any reall effect on your health, taking e's once a week is more likely to do so. Smoking 20 a day is going to be harmful, 20 e's a day will be deadly. Apples to apples.

 

[slim6y]

Education is the answer when you accept that drug use is going to happen. Good that you agree.
Accepting drug use and healthy drug use education does not automatically mean it will stop drug use.....didnt we just accept that drug use is going to happen?
As happens today, people as you suggest selfabuse with their drug use and this will continue. We can educate and offer support to all individuals however its up to them if they accept it or not.
As to educating the growers and dealers ...they are just doing simple economic truth taught at school. Supply and Demand. As long as people demand.....people will supply.

These growers and dealers - mostly suppliers do not always take the drugs... This is why the likes of indonesia take such a hardline on trafficing - these are the people that cause the hardship, the torture, the death of society... Not the people who take them, they're not the crims... They're the misguided.

Go on, educate them... it's not JUST education, it's their social background, their family, their environment... Unless you change all that, you can't educate...

I recall my parents took a very hard anti drug line, I managed to keep most of that myself

But I was lucky, i had a good family up-bringing and I was reasonably well educated. So drugs will never be my issue (well, not illegal ones anyhow).. i'm such a goody goody two shoes...

It all starts at home, then at schools and so on....

 

[junglist*]

hell no thats bull crap tell the cops

Prove it, on just a heresay story like this???

There is so much nonsense spread about such a beautifully simple and powerful molecule like MDMA.

If the taking of the drug does not interfere with the teaching (and the generally accepted research shows that there is more likely to be a connection after having experienced the substance) then what is the problem??

As for the person who stated that the use of drugs by professionals of any types should be outlawed, i suggest you take a read of a book called cats cradle. See how your opinions differ after reading that book. So many of our CEO, high level professionals, judges, lawyers cops etc have all used these so called hard drugs and succeeded in life.

There is no correlation at all between the use of a perceptual alterant and failure in life.

We need to move away from such drugs are bad nonsense, because these are the types of discussions which it promotes - WHOLLY uninformed nonsensical gibberish.

Im a chemist, working with these substances LEGALLY, and it is not the molecules which cause the most damage, but the laws whichh pertain to them. We need to change the laws and deal with ADDICTIONS full stop, not deal with the cheap political points which can be scored by being moronically TOUGH ON DRUGS. Ive never heard such nonsense when tobacco and alcohol do so much damage, and yet the 1-2% of the illicit drug harm stories take up so much of the police and judiciary's time to deal with.

Make everything legal and make sure that education about responsible use is out there.

Rant over,

 

[cris]

If the taking of the drug does not interfere with the teaching (and the generally accepted research shows that there is more likely to be a connection after having experienced the substance) then what is the problem??

It is not the effect of the drugs that i think is wrong its that they think it is ok to use drugs if you think you can control your habit. Very few ppl start out with an attitude that is differant and it simply changes after they find out how much fun the drugs are, some ppl can stay in control but others cant and it isnt anything to do with will power or intelligence. The bit i thought most disturbing is they said they wanted to see if they like it, it would be impossible not to like it(unless you overdose).

Basically if they are telling me there is nothing wrong with trying drugs, how could they try and push a positive message to the kids they teach?

I agree that most drugs should be legal, but others should be very illegal to the point where there is actually a deterent. Debating the legality wasnt the reason for starting this thread, more just a general whinge about societies acceptance of using potentially very harmful illegal drugs.

 

[junglist*]

It is not the effect of the drugs that i think is wrong its that they think it is ok to use drugs if you think you can control your habit. Very few ppl start out with an attitude that is differant and it simply changes after they find out how much fun the drugs are, some ppl can stay in control but others cant and it isnt anything to do with will power or intelligence. The bit i thought most disturbing is they said they wanted to see if they like it, it would be impossible not to like it(unless you overdose).

Basically if they are telling me there is nothing wrong with trying drugs, how could they try and push a positive message to the kids they teach?

I agree that most drugs should be legal, but others should be very illegal to the point where there is actually a deterent. Debating the legality wasnt the reason for starting this thread, more just a general whinge about societies acceptance of using potentially very harmful illegal drugs.

Actually cris, the drug has very few potential harms associated with it. Nothing should be illegal with respect to perceptual alterants. Concerning MDMA, it is actually very very hard to overdose on. It is the adulterants within the tablets which can cause these problems, and thus the media reports it as Ecstasy overdose. There have been 0 reported fatalities from MDMA overdose, nor any directly related deaths to MDMA, so to say it is so potentially harmful is crazy.

A positive message would eb quite easy to give to children about responsibility and fully educating yourself about anything you take, legal or otherwise, and to make an informed decision. That would be a beautiful type of education to be taught in schools, and i would be fully in favour of it. But the problem is that there are too many puritanical fools out there who think that they know best, whether they entertain some sort of eternal life delusion, or are just plain scared of some things, so they try to demonise anyone else who takes them.

I reiterate my point from my previous post.

"We need to move away from such drugs are bad nonsense, because these are the types of discussions which it promotes - WHOLLY uninformed nonsensical gibberish."

Actually the power to stay away from an addiction and remain in the recreational user group has everything to do with will power, and is highly linked to intelligence. However, they are no the only factors.

There is nothing wrong with trying drugs, this nonsensical prohibitionist stance that governments have been taking since america decided to go on its drug war (read war on personal freedom of choice) the ridiculous JUST SAY NO campaign is crazy. We as a species have receptors in our brains for opiates, for cannabinoids, and yet we're told by crazy conservatives that these things which we have an evolutionary link to are bad for us no matter the circumstance.

Ben harper's song burn one down has a very illuminating line within the song, which governments should really try to adopt
"My choice is what I choose to do,
And if I'm causing no harm, it shouldn't bother you.

Your choice is who you choose to be,
And if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me. "

As adults we should have the choice to do what we choose if it hurts noone else.

This teacher seems to be endangering only her/his friends by threatening massive amounts of hugs, and probably dancing as well.

As long as the teacher is not under the influence at school there is no problem.

 

[Forensick]

The bit i thought most disturbing is they said they wanted to see if they like it, it would be impossible not to like it(unless you overdose).

Basically if they are telling me there is nothing wrong with trying drugs, how could they try and push a positive message to the kids they teach?

couple of points... all of us have teachers who taught us something they didn't believe... i had an athiest RE teacher one year. i had a teacher i know to be a raging leftie teach politics where they were "balanced". i have lecturers at uni that start a lecture with "i believe all this is wrong, but its in your course so you have to learn it".
The teachers ability to teach is based in part in the ability to put their own opinions aside and teach something from an unbiased teacher.
a teacher teaching "no drugs" that has never taken any could be seen as bad too, but eitherway, they should be teaching in a way where the student doesnt know if they have or haven;t.


secondly, i have tried several drugs i didn't like.
marajuana i found to be boring
MDMA (ecstasy), was really disturbing, and i felt "outside" myself...
both of which i never did again because i didn't like it.
experimentation doesn't lead to addiction, in my case is just secured the fact that i would never do drugs

 

[cobb]

what if E isnt the only thing she is taking?
marajuana can make you schizophrenic.. i would not want a schizophrenic teacher anywhere near my children, what if there is a little terd in the class that makes them snap? a kid in year 3 isnt going to be able to stand up to a 30 year old!
what if they are on ice? people cut their own nuts of when they are on that, id hate to think what they could do to a young child...

rant over..
Jacob

 

[nickamon]

Going off-topic, sorry Cris.

i had an athiest RE teacher one year.

i have lecturers at uni that start a lecture with "i believe all this is wrong, but its in your course so you have to learn it".

What was it like being taught religion by an atheist?

Which course were you doing where the lecturer gave you that disclaimer?

Glad I'm not a teacher - it would kill me to teach my students something that I consider errant nonsense.

 

[Forensick]

in regard to marajuana induced scitzophrenia, yes it happens, you are more lilkey to become an alcoholic of a single beer tho.
even then, the amount of marajuana required to cause that would mean that the teach would need to be baked CONSTANTLY, and no one, i hope, is saying that they would be okay to teach while on something.

Going off-topic, sorry Cris.

What was it like being taught religion by an atheist?

Which course were you doing where the lecturer gave you that disclaimer?

Glad I'm not a teacher - it would kill me to teach my students something that I consider errant nonsense.

RE was fine... the course work was clearly defined so he knew what we needed to do, if anything i feel it allowed for greater discussion in class, as i have been shot down by many an RE teacher for asking "why" and kicked out for blaspheming


i have had lecturers do that in physiology, biology, and biochemistry.
remember lecturers are researchers too... and sometimes they are in the process of, or recently have, discovered something new, that kinda of contradicts existing knowledge, but it hasn't made into into course material yet.
lectureres are fanatical about their research....
and science does constantly evolve

sometimes hough its as simple as a lecturer feeling that there is a better way to teach something.

 

[zard]

who would want to be a teacher?
not only do they have to put up with the individulal judgment of each students parents thay also have to be so much more than an educator, councilor, doctor, nurse.. the list goes on.. and now it seems even their supposed private life is open for critisism.

a teacher should be there to teach, thats it.. as long as they are not failing in this area what they do in their own time is none of mine or anyone elses business. this is MY opinion.

 

[cobb]

in regard to marajuana induced scitzophrenia, yes it happens, you are more lilkey to become an alcoholic of a single beer tho.
even then, the amount of marajuana required to cause that would mean that the teach would need to be baked CONSTANTLY, and no one, i hope, is saying that they would be okay to teach while on something.
.

from what i have heard it can only take a drag from joint to cause scitzophrenia.

jacob

 

[slim6y]

Chemist or not - the use of Ecstasy or any 'perceptual alterants' must have some short and long term effects.

Personally on reading http://www.nzdf.org.nz/ecstasy I can't see what the hype is about... I am naturally energetic... Ask my GF - she's seen me dancing around for an entire day mixing music - absolutely drug free...

I find it hard to believe someone here would choose to promote or deter from obvious truths that these drugs alter the body in such a way that can be damaging even short term. If you can't agree with that then you probably either take the drugs or live in a hole with your head burried in the sand...

If it's just E - and they have the use of the drug under control.. do you still think it's OK that they teach our children about anti drug use? Or at least educate our children about the dangers?

E is not as dangerous as some... but 3 recorded deaths in NZ since 2002 doesn't indicate huge issues with fatalaties, but many other issues such as:

"An American study by Dr George Ricaurte indicated that ecstasy could cause Parkinson's disease and suggested that a single dose of ecstasy could cause irreversible damage."

Would you still be willing to take the risk?

 

[junglist*]

what if E isnt the only thing she is taking?
marajuana can make you schizophrenic.. i would not want a schizophrenic teacher anywhere near my children, what if there is a little terd in the class that makes them snap? a kid in year 3 isnt going to be able to stand up to a 30 year old!
what if they are on ice? people cut their own nuts of when they are on that, id hate to think what they could do to a young child...

rant over..
Jacob

Marijuana makes you schizophrenic??

Which type of schizophrenia is that?? The link is artefactual not causal. Weed DOES NOT MAKE YOU SCHIZOPHRENIC. Get the facts before you start making these outrageous claims. There is no documented evidence of it, and the statistics say that it cannot be said to be the causal factor.

Saying that is the same as saying that drinking alcohol makes you a sexual predator. Some people are sexual predators who commit their offences after consuming large amounts of alcohol, but not all people who consume become sexual predators.

COBB, you have been severely misinformed, but thats not unusual of the government's anti drug propaganda. Considering that it has a documented history of use ranging over 5000 years that we know of, to prohibit it in the past 50 years is ridiculous...

 

[slim6y]

who would want to be a teacher?
not only do they have to put up with the individulal judgment of each students parents thay also have to be so much more than an educator, councilor, doctor, nurse.. the list goes on.. and now it seems even their supposed private life is open for critisism.

a teacher should be there to teach, thats it.. as long as they are not failing in this area what they do in their own time is none of mine or anyone elses business. this is MY opinion.

I wanted to be a teacher, and I suceeded - it is the most rewarding, satisfying job I have ever done and I plan on doing it for many many more years... I will never make it rich, but my love and passion for this world will only encourage me to continue teaching...

It doesn't matter if I can't change them all... It's the ones I do change and see the passion in their eyes, then my job is done....

I am an educator, a councillor, a doctor, a nurse, a coach, a (sort of) friend... but I do not involve my students in my private life. If I did choose to take drugs (which I don't) I certainly wouldn't openly brag about it to anyone - whether I am a teacher or not!

 

[slim6y]

Marijuana makes you schizophrenic??

Which type of schizophrenia is that?? The link is artefactual not causal. Weed DOES NOT MAKE YOU SCHIZOPHRENIC. Get the facts before you start making these outrageous claims. There is no documented evidence of it, and the statistics say that it cannot be said to be the causal factor.

Saying that is the same as saying that drinking alcohol makes you a sexual predator. Some people are sexual predators who commit their offences after consuming large amounts of alcohol, but not all people who consume become sexual predators.

COBB, you have been severely misinformed, but thats not unusual of the government's anti drug propaganda. Considering that it has a documented history of use ranging over 5000 years that we know of, to prohibit it in the past 50 years is ridiculous...

From my previous post - check out http://www.nzdf.org.nz/cannabis

And if you didn't already read it http://www.nzdf.org.nz/ecstasy

Do you not trust it? Is that what you're saying?

The fact is - if you have the possiblity of mental disorder, then cannibis may have the ability to 'bring it out'. I don't see why you doubt it - or are you just being junglist* the stirrer again... Cause you do seem to like to stir... which is why I like getting on threads with you in it

 

[zard]

because your private life is PRIVATE.. it seems the op is wanting to know the ins and outs of a teachers life after school and i think that is hardly reasonable. god help his kids teachers.

 

[junglist*]

My area of research (forensic chemistry) means that i have been looking into this area for a very long time. NOW, irrespective of what the site you directed me towards states as their research results, the fact of the matter is that the whole ecstasy burns holes in your brains argument is specious because the dosage which was supplied to the rats in the US government funded research was about 100 time higher than any person would ever be able to take in a recreational setting. Sure there are problems associated with addiction and abuse, BUT USE DOES NOT NECESSARILY EQUATE TO ABUSE.

I do not doubt the fact that marijuana can, as you so ineloquently stated it "bring out" schizophrenia, but the fact is that schizophrenia is an amalgum of many, many psychological conditions, which vary between every individual diagnosed with the condition. It may not be the marijuana causing the onset of the already present but dormant condition, but it may also be the "i need a cigarette", the "you looked at me funny", or the bad day we all have.

There is a parallel theory about the use of marijuana and the higher than normal levels of people who develop schizophrenia using the drug. It goes like this.

There are people who do not know that there is a problem, but they are drawn towards substance use as a form of self medication for an as yet undiagnosed condition.

This is not only the case for marijuana, but or alcohol abuse, heroin abuse, and also gambling addictions have been investigated, but much more research needs to be done in this area.

I personaly would be much happier with my child being taught by a stoner or a cookie monster (read e-taker) than by an alcoholic. The chances of the personality type who use those drugs is much safer than the alcoholic who everyone knows in an alco, but thinks is harmless.

Oh, and as for those deaths related to ecstast, they are not directly related to the active ingredient MDMA. They are generally due to lack of education about the substance being taken (ANNA WOODS, died of hyponatremia water poisonng, not MDMA overdose). But also because of the impurities within the tablets sold as E (usually ketamine, DXM and PMA are the worst lethal offenders, though methamphetamine and others can cause problems here).

Yes i am saying DO NOT TRUST THOSE STUDIES. They do not tell the whole story.

You must look at who has funded the research, and their desire for findings of a specific nature.