Primary school teachers

[Australis]

See I think drugs have done good things for us, I really do.
And if you don't believe that drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor.
Go home tonight, take all your albums, all your tapes, all your cds and burn them.
'Cause you know what, the musicians who made all that great music that has enhanced your lives throught the years?
Real ******ing high on drugs.

Yes alot might of been high, and alot died young, lives cut short.

 

[-Peter]

I suppose my answer is a question, do parents who use recreational drugs have the right to keep their children and do they have the right to question whether others should or should not? If the answer to the first part is yes then the second is no but if the first answer is no then the second is yes.

 

[liasis]

Wow Earthling, you neally brought a tear to my eye with that speech. I would say well said - but as I am a teacher, and I don't do hard drugs, then I must also say no matter what channel 9 or some random internet site says - it's individual effects vary so considerably, manufacture often varies also causing variable effects, allergies etc etc... No, it is not safe - and this is not dose dependant.

Have you ever heard of 'P'?

Methamphetamine... Suprisingly enough the media was kept out of the loop of 'P' for such a long time, and still many of the general public are unaware of it. Yet it is the most dangerous drug on earth.

Unfortunately, your close neighbours have a serious 'P' problem - people are being murdered, hands being cut off... many many pyschotic side effects occur because of 'P'.

I talked to a criminal psychologist (of Oxford variety if that has anything to do with it) who was an old boy at a school I taught at. He is one of the most sort after criminal psychologist in the world. I asked him straight out - what is the difference between a pyschotic person on a killing spree and someone on 'P'. His answer was plain and simple - there is no difference, these people experience the same symptoms as any psychotic person, and most will find it uncontrollable.

Ok - so that isn't 'E'... But Cris had asked is it ok to experiment with hard drugs - and 'P' is a hard drug.

No is the answer - not for a teacher, not for a plumber not for anyone...

However - individuals, in a safe environment can choose what they do and who they do it with. And I would not preach any different.

But on saying this - alcohol is probably more damaging in the long term than E and we find it socially acceptable... go figure???

I know this doesn't answer your question... I don't know enough about E to determine if it is unsafe. I know of two cases of deaths attributed to E, but not many people, that I am aware of, have pyschotic episodes from E. But I believe strongly that people who choose E may choose harder drugs for the future if that's all they can get their hands on. And then in the pursuit of finding that original high they become addicted and fall into that pit...

Good luck on your crusade of removing drugs from our schools... Because I would say that it is nearly impossible...

ps - Last year, I taught physics to a very nice bunch of year 12 students - one obviously had a marijuana problem and throughout the year his grades dropped, his motivation dropped, and his attention span became non-existent... From an A student of the class - to a possible A class drug taker... It is very sad to see.

what is p

 

[Forensick]

Yes, alcohol is a very addictive drug and far less harmful to a persons mental well being, it does cause brain damage but not in the same way(or as dramitically), it does not retard the brains production of seratonin or severely damage short term memory. Alcohol doesnt change a persons personality either(although it can amplify bad traits). There is also the legal side and the fact that there are no safety standards for producing illegal drugs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

oh, god, its good to laugh.
oh dear, sorry hate to break it to you, alcohol is actually worse than many illicit drugs, long term and short term.
legal does not equate to safe.


and for the preson that said the teacher wasn't being discreet.... how often would a teach run into a grade 3 student at 1am in a bar?

 

[liasis]

oh and if you take any type of drug you should be shot i have no time for losers that take drugs

 

[buck]

Quite frankly, your post is moronic. yes alcohol and tobacco are far bigger problems, simply because people think that because they are legal, they must not be bad for you. (stupid idea). The research has indicated the MDMA has very very few deletorious effects on the human brain at recreational doses.

I hope that the younger members of this forum read what i am typing and take it on board. If you bothered to read my posts, i am advocating intelligent informed choice and decisions about substances which are not fully discussed past a drugs are bad ok, nonsensical drug education policy in schools.
I am not advocating that everyone go out and take drugs, but this is generally the standpoint that people whoa re anti drugs assign to any individual who would rock the boat.

These drugs are dangerous IF ABUSED. But use does not necessarily equate to abuse. Kids inform yourselves of the information, and do not let others push you into making a decision you are not confortable with.

Drugs are a tool to be used, and they can be used responsibly, but the people need to move towards making their voices heard on this issue.

As to the comparable levels of use idea you postulated.

The netherlands legalised marijuana and decriminlaised many drugs. Their incidence of marijuana use is about 250% below the levels recorded within america and australia, two countries which prohibit the drugs. Thats a message which needs to be put out there.

Yes the drugs may be harmful if youtake too many, but a large bus to the head will have a far quicker action on the cessation of life.

Well if we are to be frank.... from this and other threads that I have witnessed your participation you seem to be one of the most arrogant people I have ever had dealings with. You sit there dishing out personal attacks from the safety of your computer. Well can you please do me a favour and supply some EVIDENCE of all of these stats that you are quoting, just for the morons out there . Any FOOL can sit there and type numbers- lets see some reference to back it up!!!!!!!
I think the way in which you totally dismissed the link supplied by Slim6y to the NZ site says alot about the kind of person you are.

If you would bother to get over your ego and read my post properly you would see that I never said that alcohol and tabacco were any less of a problem. I actually agree with you on several points. What I do have a problem with is someone who proclaims to be a chemist coming on to a family site saying that drugs are ok and don't listen to the governments propaganda.

How can you honestly site there and say that E poses no long term effects? How can anyone make that sort of statement from the comparitively small amount of time it has become a recreational drug?
I'm sure they were once saying the same thing about tabacco. Totally harmless!!!!

 

[buck]

I agree - alcohol is very dangerous, and probably more commonly abused than drugs...

Just don't ignore the fact, that while it is a fine line, there is a difference between therapeutic drugs (and alcohol) and abuse which society picks up the pieces of.

It's the latter that is of the major concern.

Both you and Earthling, and many others still agree that the correct education is the answer, not the scare tactics that are employed by the powers to be... But promotion of such drugs is not nesescary at all (by anyone).

Yes, take your drugs, enjoy them, increase your body temperature, feel your pulse at 150 - 200bpm without even lifting a finger, feel the effects of dehydration... watch you don't drink too much water... Watch that paranoia doesn't start to take hold... (This may not represent everyone or every drug, these symptoms may or may not occur - I am not talking just MDMA).

But one thing that shouldn't be done is promotion of the drug - and this thread, the way i read it, stated a teacher, someone with a bit of authority, maybe even power, the ability to change young childrens' minds - someone in front of a class room of eager young children, may have been taking drugs, and promoted such use to the extent of bragging in front of general public when it is known she is a teacher...

If you can't see there is something wrong with that scenario - even if it is so mildly wrong, without firstly saying but you drink alcohol or you speed, or did you ever break a law... That's not what this is about... this is about THAT teacher and their ability to promote a drug that is not only banned, but to some extent dangerous...

Can you see that this is not a perfect, not even a good situation?

Very well said!!!!!

 

[Earthling]

But one thing that shouldn't be done is promotion of the drug - and this thread, the way i read it, stated a teacher, someone with a bit of authority, maybe even power, the ability to change young childrens' minds - someone in front of a class room of eager young children, may have been taking drugs, and promoted such use to the extent of bragging in front of general public when it is known she is a teacher...
Can you see that this is not a perfect, not even a good situation?

cris's original post said
" tonight i met a primary school teacher who would not accept my opinion that it was stupid for her to be using MDMA(Ecstasy) everyone i was with basically said i was an idiot and it was her choice what she does etc."

the he goes on to say
"The reason i started this thread was not out of concern for the teachers health, it was more concern about the increasingly common attitude that its OK to try such drugs thinking you wont end up having a problem with them."

Bragging.........eeeeeeeeong.....Wrong Slim. Her friends seem to do most of the talking by the looks of it. She was just having some MDMA and wanted to Loooooove everybody.

This thread looks like it was started as someone (no names cris:shock: ) didnt know that there is harm-minimisation ways of taking drugs and that drugs can actually be therapeutic in some cases...as with MDMA. Also that just because you try a drug does not mean your gutter trash 6 months later begging for $1 bus fares off passerbys.

I would imagine that now after reading this thread he is a bit more Educated on the matter.

 

[slim6y]

Just to add to me previous post tho...

Legalisation...

Pros - Drug users can get higher quality drugs, taxes can be reaped... There's probably many many more....

Cons - It becomes more accessible and easier for younger people to take them. More people may become 'hooked'...

There's loads more there too...

Lets look at gun laws and see if it equates anything to this scenario:

1) In virginia it is legal to own one hand gun, carry it loaded without a license.

2) In order to prevent school shootings it is said 'Arm the teachers'

So the paradox of this of course is obvious... It's saying allowing people to carry guns will reduce the murder rate because people will be more scared to use their guns in case of retaliation... Ironically it has back fired...

So allowing people to get mindlessly blown away you say will actually CURB the effect of drugs on our society. I somehow doubt that very much regardless of purity.

And do you know why?

Because it's too difficult to to make people take all the consequences of their own actions. Again it will fall on society to make it 'better'. And society is out of band aids for drugs because they've had enough!

One man's taking of drugs (unless he's on an island totally by himself) will effect many others no matter if it is legal or not... Their children, their spouse, their neghbours, their immediate family, their employers, and just society in general... You can't control the actions of the individual, and education won't help the majority to make an informed choice - as I said earlier... Only the informed will make informed choices.

Just remember - Junglist* you may not see the future easily - what stands to reason (legalisation) does not always occur...

Gun laws are just one of those...

Just think, if you legalised car stealing would that solve the problem of car stealing? Why not legalise the problem of murder, that will solve it too... I think you look quite shallow into this legalising - although for the correct reasons, it will not allow control to such an extent that it makes it safe - and I can see no way through this.

Amsterdam, where access to drugs is relatively unproblematic, is among the most violent and squalid cities in Europe.

There will be a new breed of 'get rich quick' people to take on the new role of drug manufacturers - this doesn't solve a problem that already occurs without legalisation.

People who commit crimes to fund their drug addictions (needs/wants) will not vanish. Why would drugs become cheaper? You think by making it legal there will be some form of price establishment? Even if it was - those people will still commit crime to force feed their needs.

What about methadone clinics - or the like? You say we only legalise MDMA - rubbish i say - it hasn't helped in NZ with BZP fully legalised!

http://www.ergogenics.org/bzp.html (Tanczos is a famous NZ politician for the green party who once admitted openly to smoking marijuana and believes it should be on the free market)

 

[Forensick]

Well if we are to be frank.... from this and other threads that I have witnessed your participation you seem to be one of the most arrogant people I have ever had dealings with. You sit there dishing out personal attacks from the safety of your computer. Well can you please do me a favour and supply some EVIDENCE of all of these stats that you are quoting, just for the morons out there . Any FOOL can sit there and type numbers- lets see some reference to back it up!!!!!!!
I think the way in which you totally dismissed the link supplied by Slim6y to the NZ site says alot about the kind of person you are.

If you would bother to get over your ego and read my post properly you would see that I never said that alcohol and tabacco were any less of a problem. I actually agree with you on several points. What I do have a problem with is someone who proclaims to be a chemist coming on to a family site saying that drugs are ok and don't listen to the governments propaganda.

How can you honestly site there and say that E poses no long term effects? How can anyone make that sort of statement from the comparitively small amount of time it has become a recreational drug?
I'm sure they were once saying the same thing about tabacco. Totally harmless!!!!

i am scanning my biochemistry books for reference for you.
also my biochemistry demonstrator is doing her phd in recreational drug use, i will be happy to forward it to you when she publishes....
she isn't being funded by any anti-drug agencies either

 

[slim6y]

This appears to be the link I have been looking for http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/418325_7

It states, without bias, that MORE STUDIES NEED TO BE DONE before we go willie nillie into legalising MDMA... Studies, and more studies and more studies... if then, they prove to be sufficient and MDMA has therapeutic effects that outweigh the serious effects of 'downers' etc then... maybe then legalisation on prescription can be offered... what do you think of that then?

 

[slim6y]

cris's original post said
" tonight i met a primary school teacher who would not accept my opinion that it was stupid for her to be using MDMA(Ecstasy) everyone i was with basically said i was an idiot and it was her choice what she does etc."

the he goes on to say
"The reason i started this thread was not out of concern for the teachers health, it was more concern about the increasingly common attitude that its OK to try such drugs thinking you wont end up having a problem with them."

Bragging.........eeeeeeeeong.....Wrong Slim. Her friends seem to do most of the talking by the looks of it. She was just having some MDMA and wanted to Loooooove everybody.

This thread looks like it was started as someone (no names cris:shock: ) didnt know that there is harm-minimisation ways of taking drugs and that drugs can actually be therapeutic in some cases...as with MDMA. Also that just because you try a drug does not mean your gutter trash 6 months later begging for $1 bus fares off passerbys.

I would imagine that now after reading this thread he is a bit more Educated on the matter.

OK Earthling, technicallity and really not wrong... I see what you're saying.. but the point is clear... and it appears in posts above about that scenario... Sorry if it was not put in such a way that it followed the posters' original post....

 

[buck]

Just found this link http://www.justthinktwice.com/factfiction/LegalizationWorks.cfm

Quote from the link "After allowing marijuana to be sold in certain cafes, the Government of the Netherlands reconsidered its legalization policy. Consumption of marijuana had nearly tripled from 15 to 44% among 18-20 year olds. "

Definately interesting to read and blows a huge hole in a certain argument

 

[buck]

The netherlands legalised marijuana and decriminlaised many drugs. Their incidence of marijuana use is about 250% below the levels recorded within america and australia, two countries which prohibit the drugs. Thats a message which needs to be put out there.
.

ABOUT 250%. Interesting fact - not!!!

In any case how can you compare these countries' use of a "social" drug when the countries have totally different social structures and cultures?? Surely these would have more bearing on the drugs use then any other factor you can provide???

 

[slim6y]

Thanks buck... no offence to you, as I saw you have commented on the same side I am - but.. that site doesn't do much for me. Simple things as spelling and grammar (I know I am not the best there either) just lower its credibility... But I do agree with everything said there and I would suggest that legalising any drug is absolute nonsense without adequate research for its therapeutic benefits. And then, and only then, with doctors prescription only.

 

[waruikazi]

Funny you should say that, i know someone who has been hit in the head with a bus and the damage it caused is insignificant next to the damage they have done to themselves through taking pills.
They were well educated about the side effects of using and always used to say how stupid it was for ppl to take them etc. now they cant enjoy a night out without them and claim to have many problems caused by them.

How do you know the damage they have done to themselves has been through the use of pills?

 

[Forensick]

an anti drug site quoting news papers, and politicians.
right......

thats unbiased and well researched....

i don't agree with legalising drugs, but that site has as much "evidence" as out total opinions in this thread

 

[Earthling]

Just to add to me previous post tho...

Legalisation...

Pros - Drug users can get higher quality drugs, taxes can be reaped... There's probably many many more....

Cons - It becomes more accessible and easier for younger people to take them. More people may become 'hooked'...

There's loads more there too...

Lets look at gun laws and see if it equates anything to this scenario:

1) In virginia it is legal to own one hand gun, carry it loaded without a license.

2) In order to prevent school shootings it is said 'Arm the teachers'

So the paradox of this of course is obvious... It's saying allowing people to carry guns will reduce the murder rate because people will be more scared to use their guns in case of retaliation... Ironically it has back fired...

So allowing people to get mindlessly blown away you say will actually CURB the effect of drugs on our society. I somehow doubt that very much regardless of purity.

And do you know why?

Because it's too difficult to to make people take all the consequences of their own actions. Again it will fall on society to make it 'better'. And society is out of band aids for drugs because they've had enough!

One man's taking of drugs (unless he's on an island totally by himself) will effect many others no matter if it is legal or not... Their children, their spouse, their neghbours, their immediate family, their employers, and just society in general... You can't control the actions of the individual, and education won't help the majority to make an informed choice - as I said earlier... Only the informed will make informed choices.

Just remember - Junglist* you may not see the future easily - what stands to reason (legalisation) does not always occur...

Gun laws are just one of those...

Just think, if you legalised car stealing would that solve the problem of car stealing? Why not legalise the problem of murder, that will solve it too... I think you look quite shallow into this legalising - although for the correct reasons, it will not allow control to such an extent that it makes it safe - and I can see no way through this.

Amsterdam, where access to drugs is relatively unproblematic, is among the most violent and squalid cities in Europe.

There will be a new breed of 'get rich quick' people to take on the new role of drug manufacturers - this doesn't solve a problem that already occurs without legalisation.

People who commit crimes to fund their drug addictions (needs/wants) will not vanish. Why would drugs become cheaper? You think by making it legal there will be some form of price establishment? Even if it was - those people will still commit crime to force feed their needs.

What about methadone clinics - or the like? You say we only legalise MDMA - rubbish i say - it hasn't helped in NZ with BZP fully legalised!

http://www.ergogenics.org/bzp.html (Tanczos is a famous NZ politician for the green party who once admitted openly to smoking marijuana and believes it should be on the free market)

Wow! Slim!:shock:
Harm-Minimisation for drugs means educate and ideally supply drugs without the crap that the backyarders put into them that cause a lot of negative health risks.
Guns are about using fear (not education)..no similarity. Policies focusing on using peoples fears only causes more misery.
Car stealing...Murder....totally different kettle of fish my friend. They are acts of stealing anothers goods or life. Harm-minimisation approach does not do this. It educates not steals. No comparison.
Reason why Amsterdam is so bad is of all the foriegners squatting and having orgies of drugs.
they cant get it much normally or as cheap so when they can they selfabuse. Just like we all do when we go to Bali on alcohol. Party party party!

As to bandaids we are in an 'ice' epidemic...health services are being pushed to the limits. bandaid isnt going to fit no more..we need a solution....

Slim realistically LOOK: the drug laws that have been put forward the last 50 years if they were sound and worked we would have sorted out the percieved problem yeah?! But the percieved 'problem' is actually getting much worse. Obviously our approach of lock em up and punish and criminilise drugs is NOT working. Isnt THAT obvious!
We HAVE to try something else and far as I can see Harm-minimisation is the way to go.

 

[slim6y]

Quite frankly, your post is moronic.
The netherlands legalised marijuana and decriminlaised many drugs. Their incidence of marijuana use is about 250% below the levels recorded within america and australia, two countries which prohibit the drugs. Thats a message which needs to be put out there.

Hmmmm.. a leaf out of your own book... Evidence - I accept you're fighting for the losing team, but now I see why...

I would strongly suggest that your stat like 97% of other stats was pulled out of thin air. I would use harsher language, but as I hardly drink alcohol I am unlikely to be violent or agressive.

Junglist* I do admire some of your posts, but - Frankly - your post is moronic !

 

[MrBredli]

I know hundreds of people and have met literally thousands of people who have consumed MDMA on many, many, many occasions and not one of them have had any problems either physically or mentally. Now that is a FACT.