Question for Simon Archibold and 'Fuscus'

[Slateman]

This country of ours is large continent. I think that woma would have hard time to crawl across centre of australia to NSW.
I am thinking of so many different carpet snakes we have, and they are different becaose of conditions they live in. Once long time ago they was only one. All this change took long time and I am sure that diamond Python do not crawl to Darvin visit his antie scrubie .
Looks like this one will be great discussion. Please don't get to exited and behave.

 

[Splitmore]

Soulweaver,
If a monitor escaping wouldn't do much to the local wildlife then why would a corn snake or boa be any different? That is the point I'm trying to make.
If by chance the monitor 'fitted straight back in' then by doing that wouldn't it be competing with the local monitor population?Couldn't it, in theory, then displace this entire population?What if that displaced population was the only remaining colony of that species of monitor?
The general respone in this thread so far is that if a non indeginous reptile did escape then it really wouldn't be much of a problem to the local wildlife. Why then would an exotic reptile reak the havoc that some people seem to think?

 

[hugsta]

You say a water python in victoria/SA. It would most likely die in the winter. But, a coastal up in darwin, that would probably survive and breed with the Darwin carpet, would that then be a new species?

 

[soulweaver]

splitmore,

because the gentic makeup and dieases/immunity to diesaes would be the same, a australian reptile already has these immunitys to survive in our climite.

 

[Splitmore]

because the gentic makeup and dieases/immunity to diesaes would be the same, a australian reptile already has these immunitys to survive in our climite.

Soulweaver,
Then you simply validate my point. A native reptile is just as likely to establish feral populations as are exotic ones, yet no one seems to care about the consequences.

 

[boconnor]

I totally agree with you splitmore. For example a few stray maculosa in Darwin could quite easily affect the purity of the childreni in the area.

 

[basketcase]

the closest thing youll get to a definattive answer splitmore, is that the administrators who make the laws dont have a clue. tho im sure if they could figure out a way to make some money by legalising exotics they would

 

[NoOne]

I'm all for licensing of exotics. The main reason being is they are here already and no matter what NPWS tries they WILL NOT get rid of them, police can't get rid of drugs how the hell is NPWS going to seize all exoctics.
Theres is no need to import animals, most species are here now and being bred.
I've said it a million times, people in this country who keep exotics are no different to us they just enjoy them rather than aussie reptiles, they are not mean, nasty people.
Alot of these collections are just as well maintained and disease free as anyone collections on this list.
Exotics could easily be licensed with out fear of disease spreading but this would be a complete backflip of the laws now which is the hard part to change.
Mark my words exotics will be legalised one day.

 

[hugsta]

I hope so NoOne, I'd love an albino red tailed boa.
But I think it will be a while before it will become legal, so I guess I'll be waiting for a while. LOL

 

[NoOne]

I met a guy who had one of those(not an albino), it was only small and that was a few years ago, beutiful snake.
Mate it could be 50yrs before it happens but it will happen.

 

[hugsta]

I know a guy that has one, on an exotics licence from amnesty in '97 I think it was.
Awesome snake, about 9ft female.

 

[Guest]

Well what about venomous exotics?? Tim Nias raised a very interesting point in another forum. What the hell are you going to do when your bitten by a higly toxic venomous snake, for which no anti venom exist for in Australia?

Actually there would be a few exotic species that could possibly have an impact on our ecosystem if they escaped. Look at Nile Monitors in Florida or Boa's in Central Park

 

[Guest]

And also...how many doctors in Australia would know what to do if a someone got bitten by their 6ft Puff Adder?

 

[basketcase]

obviously venomous exotics cant be legalised due to expense of antivenene

unless massive licence fees are intorduced to cover the cost etc, but that wont happen

 

[Daisy]

I think Splitmore has a couple of valid points here. We all know that exotics are being brought in despite the legal situation. Allowing restriced licenced keeping would at least provide for some scrutiny of what is going on. The risks to native fauna of imported diseases, parasites and feral populations of exotic animals is too great to ignore. If collections are known they can be scrutinised and the threat somewhat lessened.

We can't assume that if a species has evolved under different conditions it will not be able to adapt if it escapes or is released here. Look at the problems caused by cane toad, rabbits, foxes, pigs and cats.

i think exotics should not be allowed, but this reason does not apply to the water python because of the fact that it wouldn't do anything that a carpet python wouldn't, it serves no threat. So maybe which species are and aren't allowed in should be decided by this

Matty don't assume that if an animal is native to one part of the country it will not be a pest if introduced to another part. Species have evolved in isolation caused by climatic and geographic barriers that they can't cross (allopatric speciation). If introduced in another location they can out compete locally endemic species. Rainbow lorikeets are an introduced pest in WA and I think kookaburras are too (not sure). We don't know enough to go mucking about introducing animals that we don't think will be a threat. In my book there is little difference between keeping exotics and natives that are not found in the area.

If people are allowed to keep cats & dogs & other potential ferals, why can't they keep a few exotic herps?

Sorry for the long reply but I'm a bit passionate about this stuff. Remeber kids: don't release anything unless you know it came from there originally.

Dave

 

[RAZZA]

Hi.. as i posted here last year will put link on again for the newer memebers here..

www.affa.gov.au under outputs Market Access and Biosecurity..then folder Import Risk Analyses then under folder Current Animal IRA thence Live Snakes

this is the home site of Department Of Agriculture,Fisheries And Forestry and they have a current IRA(import risk analyses) for live snakes under review.. I contacted them late last year to see if anything further has happened.. the response sent was it has been put on the back burner for more important things at this stage

cheers

 

[NCHERPS]

I have always made it clear that I am happy with the species I get to keep out here, more than happy infact.
I would be fine if I didn't ever get the oppertunity to ever keep them again, as after 19 years in the UK I have kept more than my fair share.
However, it would appear to me that the amount of exotic's in Australia are far more than we are aware of, just by going on what people are saying, and that means the goverment have a hard job of policing it.
People that keep them won't necessarily be licenced keepers, but some will, of those that are, some won't keep there snakes at their place of residence, but maybe around a relatives.

I personally believe that licencing will ultimately be the only option open eventually.
I also don't feel that people are not correct in blaming exotic species for all the diseases that have been found in reptiles in Australia, and to scarmonger that making them legal would make this worse, on the contary, I believe that if it is above board then it is easier to determine where the animals have come from and provide quality controls as a precaution, but as I said, I don't think exotic's can be blamed for everything as this clearly hasn't been the case in other countries.
New viruses pop up around the world including Australia all the time, not just in reptiles but other animals to, it's wrong to say that IBD or alike was a direct result of a Imported animal, at least not in every case.

I have to say Baritji, your examples aren't that convincing in light of current debate in regards to cross state cb animals being accidently released into another that they do not naturally come from, as Boa's occur in America(Rosy boa's being one), maybe not naturally in Central park, but that is the point, they do occur in the USA. I will give you the Nile monitor in Florida, but has Florida banned 'Nile monitors' in that state, no!

Also, the exotic venomous issue is a much more important one, and one why even more I believe it would be better to licence, as while you could phone up 'SA venom' for antivenin and advice for a bite from a Puffadder, you may not be able to do the same for other more unusual exotic bites, and that is very worrying!

 

[soulweaver]

because the gentic makeup and dieases/immunity to diesaes would be the same, a australian reptile already has these immunitys to survive in our climite.

Soulweaver,
Then you simply validate my point. A native reptile is just as likely to establish feral populations as are exotic ones, yet no one seems to care about the consequences.

I'm not validating your point. the point i was ment to get across is that the dieases common to australia are everywhere in australia. diseases in america or africa might not be the same as here. you could say isolate the exotics until the time is safe, but not all bacteria or diseases are visable.

is there any diseases that say W.A reptiles get that QLD ones don't? If W.a species are able to be accessed in QLD then you'd say no, they would have same diseases.

as for ferals, you can't say 100% that the snakes you own now, or ones that are wild arn't already ferals!

the only reason that snakes don't cross into new territorys is why would you if the food and shelter was avaliable where you already are?

 

[dobermanmick]

We can't assume that if a species has evolved under different conditions it will not be able to adapt if it escapes or is released here. Look at the problems caused by cane toad, rabbits, foxes, pigs and cats

All the more reason not to let the exotics in !

Edit > i do not believe that we have no exotics in australia we just dont need more <

 

[Guest]

No that isnt the reason..year 8 science will tell you that. lol