Question for Simon Archibold and 'Fuscus'

[Slateman]

Now Slatey, when you purchased the snake from the guy who turned up to your work, didn't you think that there was something wrong? I admire you greatly and believe that the hobby benefits from you and you kin?s unpaid generosity but that sounds like buying something that fell of the back of a truck.

Well Fuscus, You are wrong about me.
I had no idea about doing anything ilegal. I newer discussed before with anybody about licencing of any pets.
At that time I had impression that people here in Australia can purchase and keep any pet they like.
It was later I find out about licencing system, when I started to get informations about how to take care about my new pet.
I have no australian education and laws in my old country are different.
We could have any animal available for sale there.
Man came to shop and offered this snake to me in same way like other people was comming and offered tickets for charity raffle or calendar for supporting our police force. I had no Idea that to purchase things that way is ilegal. I purchased my house insurance by man popping in to shop with offer to.

Regarding exotics, I have no opinion on the subject, I leave this to the other experts here on APS. We have many here.

 

[Ramsayi]

Well Slateman all I can say is that you were very lucky that a certain one or two APS members didn't live next door to you.If they did they would have had you jailed,possibly even sent you to the electric chair if they had their way.

 

[Fuscus]

Ramsayi, would you kindly point out to the other readers where I have voiced my opinion on the appropiate punishment for the keeping of exotic reptiles?

 

[Splitmore]

Fuscus,
I'm not going to get into an arguement regarding the status of glossy black cockatoos, your obviously quite the expert on the subject(I mean that in all sincerity). I only hope however that you have all the factual evidence to back up what you have posted. I mean you have just gone and refuted the findings of someone who has spent years reasearching these birds and dismissed their findings as complete rubbish by what you have written above(that infact feral long billed corellas have had an impact on the population of glossy blacks).By refering to the article as 'poorly written reference' then you are obviously familiar with the article I quoted from then?Like I said I only hope you have the credentials to back up what you have said, I mean only an idiot would profess to know more than a published field reasearcher if all they'd done was spend a few hours reading information off the internet.

Now I, along with the powers to be, don't believe that water pythons could establish themselves in SA. For one, there is no obvious barrier to them reaching SA, after all they have had thousands of years to do it, so why not?

Fuscus,
If a few hundred thousand square kilometers of arid desert that lies between the top ens and Adelaide isn't enough of a barrier for a semi aquatic python to overcome then I don't know what is.

Go and get your copy of Coggers 'Reptiles and Amphibians of Australia'

Have it right here and can't find any reference to Goulds monitors being found anywhere near Newcastle.

And incidentally, I'm being transferred to QLD soon, hopefully Townsville, if that happens I'll sell by beloved waters rather than risk polluting the local QLD form with the NT form.

Very noble of you Fuscus, would be interested to how how many other people who are jumping up and down about the risk of exotics escaping would take your lead and do the same thing with their natives.
Regards,
Splitmore

 

[earthmother]

Kiddies! :twisted: lol Let's not misquote or get our knickers in a knot.
It's one of those non ending topics.
I'm sure the Government has the whole punishment thing covered.

We all have a view on this and I'm open to see what others think. I can even change my mind! lol :shock:
Right now I'm saying ditto to Agamidae and those of like mind As I like the way it is.

I did see exotics I wanted at the ARP. But I can be content with the varied species here.

Slatey, There is a difference between actively seeking out exotics or being naive by trusting someone else when buying an animal. I think that you would be very careful with an exotic and you'd keep it very secure. lol, Can I work at your shop?

Frankly, I'd only dob if I thought the animal would be better off with the authorities, and that isn't always the case.
Whoops. - - - Should I have typed that - am I admitting that I'd do something illegal?
and who is "Frankly"?
Em

 

[Splitmore]

Agamidae,
I couldn't agree more with you and again am not trying to inflame the pro/anti exotics debate. My point is what makes a native reptile any less likely to establish a feral population than an exotic one. What if instead of sliders they were a native, but not local, species that had become established in QLD? Would you be jumping up and down trying to have that particular species banned as pets in QLD?

split do you have exotics yourself?

Ha would I admit that on a public forum?For the record no I don't and can't say I would rush out tomorrow and aquire anything if it was made legal.Believe me I have enough to look after with what I already have here.
Again I'm not pro or anti exotics like I said before though, a licensing system would at least allow us to keep track of whats out there. My post was to point out the hypocrisy of some people on this matter.
Regards,
Splitmore

 

[Fuscus]

.. just gone and refuted the findings of someone who has spent years reasearching these birds and dismissed their findings as complete rubbish by what you have written above(that infact feral long billed corellas have had an impact on the population of glossy blacks).By refering to the article as 'poorly written reference' then you are obviously familiar with the article I quoted from then?Like I said I only hope you have the credentials to back up what you have said, I mean only an idiot would profess to know more than a published field reasearcher if all they'd done was spend a few hours reading information off the internet.

So an article is a sydney paper has suddenly been promoted to a reseach paper? Interesting. Kindly send me the url so I can read it myself. After all , I listed my sources, please return the favor. Incidentally black cockatoos are an obsession with me, I have tracked glossies in carnarvon gorge, photographed glossies in Lamington NP, photographed the other red-tailed black cockatoos (calyptorhynchus banksii) on the sunshine coast and along the banks of the Darling and are currently monitoring a couple of nest sites of yellow-tailed black cockatoos (Calyptorhynchus funereus) in Mclaren vale and a flock of 300 in the cooyong. I am quite willing to have my comments questioned but don't hurl personal abuse at me.

Fuscus,
If a few hundred thousand square kilometers of arid desert that lies between the top ens and Adelaide isn't enough of a barrier for a semi aquatic python to overcome then I don't know what is.

Have a look at the water pythons distribution. Note that it touches the tip of the murray-darling basin. You can work the rest out.

 

[Slateman]

Yep earth mother. It was just luck of information at that time. I do have only native snakes now and to be onast about it, I do not seek any exotic snake. I have long way to go with native snakes yet.

Now you big boys who know the stuff.
Please keep in mind that this is only discussion where you express your opinion. It is no need to convince anybody here. Most of us do have opinion on the subject and we will not make any difference to change current legistlation what so ewer.
I think that is not good to loose friend over this. So far you discussed this in civilize manner do not push your point to strongly, thank you for that.

 

[BROWNS]

Great discussion!

As has been said before, exotics are here and have been for a long time"and plenty of them".They are very much like drugs and prostitution....they've been around for ever and as long as there is demand there will be supply.In no way should they be made legal , but they have to be regulated in some way.

People talk a lot about smuggling "illegal importing" but from what i have gathered most exotics are now bred here.I'm sure smuggling is happening but not on the scale some people think.I know in the US many people would pay good money for locality specific animals.

If they were made legal there would be so many newbies getting corn snakes instead of a childrens python or a carpet because of their colours for a start ......the more people that get them then obviously the more chance of escapees,unwanted releases into the wild etc....Corn snakes also breed like rabbits and are always hungry......Personally i think corns could establish feral populations throughout most of Australia just like the rotten cane toad has.

I really like some exotics but prefer to own our own unique and very special animals.

 

[soulweaver]

Soulweaver. Next time you go to the airport to pick up some herps. Check out the sign about shipping live animals to WA.

if the W.A zoo has exotics then it's obvious that snakes can be shipped there. which brings me back to my orignal argument that the local people are not pushing animals being allowed to go there.

those rules applied to Vic at one stage but partition after partition got new animals on the list. Wa needs to do the same

signs can be changed.

 

[sarahbell]

i want a charmeleon


and thats all i have to say on this

 

[steve6610]

i'm just happy to have my aussie reptiles, but if the others were made legal, then i'd have to check them out,

 

[fishead]

Aint we all a bunch of ferals!!!!
In the end I guess I'm a very happy little feral with my Aussie natives though - non local though they be!
PS Right on Sarah, a couple of rainbow panther chameleons would be nice though! Hey it's a scewed up world hey!
Better sign off - have run out of exclamation marks.
Regards, Steve.

 

[rodentrancher]

I really don't understand how so many exotic reptiles have been able to get into Oz. this is a very interesting discussion APS. cheers Cheryl and Dave

 

[RAZZA]

rodent... very easily we have a bigass border to control with our shore line and perhaps not enough money put aside for it..also there are other ways as well as just comming in by a small boat in the remote part of australia....

 

[BROWNS]

OK, if or when they are made legal what do we do then?

Do we buy from a local exotic breeder ,who would be able to do it?Do we import?There's people breeding them so what will they be the dealers?

Where does it start and finish?

Just thoughtful quetsions?

 

[Slateman]

OK , if? LOL

 

[Stevo]

Interesting thread well done splitmore but isnt it funny how the question by splitmore (if against exotics why not against natives from other areas) has been hardly talked about. people go way off topic easily and spiltmore might have to edit post to say Exotics for or Against?. I have had a little experience with exotics (a long time ago) but wouldnt own one now. I think Browns point is great that if they were legal then new herpers would probably shy away from natives and buy a corn snake. Most exotics here have been bred for years and wouldnt need to be imported, but it would open up a whole new array of them. In regards to the question i would be devastated if i couldnt own a bredli or bhp cause i was in victoria so im not against exotics (i would probably become an illegal keeper) the underground trade hasnt been all together diastrous (note sliders and maybe corns) so let the people who take the risk of getting caught keep them and the people who dont want to simply dont. If your neighbor has a boa and keeps it well confined who cares, if he lets it escape then have a bitch and call someone. Anyway i reckon the actual point by splitmore is a ripper and 3 cheers for him.............

 

[moosenoose]

Original post deleted by moderators

Please if you like to post to APS forum, do not use this type of language.

Apologies! I was really saying 'flippen' :shock: Truly

 

[Blue_Streak]

This is an interesting forum, and i think if majority of reptile owners have a system of keeping exotics and reptile owners see it fair, then it should be allowed. Its simple democracy and all the people who dont like reptiles, will most likely be dazzled by a cool looking snake and agree!