Reptiles in NSW pet shop

[KaotikJezta]

You seem to contradict yourself. So you believe NSW will follow similar laws to VIC right? I quote "it will be an avenue for selling common hard to move animals"(your own words) Please explain when animals like keelbacks,slatey greys,painted dragons,green tree snakes,mangrove monitors, mertens water monitors, hosmer's skinks etc became "common hard to move animals"? Perhaps you should have a look at the Amazing amazon website and see their current livestock for sale....Not a single one of those animals is not what I would call common. Do you personally know how often a young D. punctulata is meant to feed? Do you know the methods of enticing this species to eat for themselves or how to force feed? I doubt you do and I doubt the general public would be up to the task to try to perform these methods.
Do you know about the hosmer's communal living habits?

My point is that nobody knows as much about a species as a longtime keeper/breeder does. You can read all of the books and forum posts you like but it accounts for absolutely nothing compared to real life experience! So to sit there and try to tell someone like myself who has kept a few of these species that a cashier who has read a few paragraphs from books is as knowledgeable as a breeder is laughable. The hours that go in to some of the above species is astronomical as anyone who has worked with them will know.
But I'm sure you know all of the procedures that go along with all the above species since they can legally be sold commercially in your state

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l

Um, maybe you should do something other than look at a website, AA do not sell green tree pythons as they are on advanced licence, try opening the link next time. As for the other things they sell, if you read my post carefully, you will see I said it would be an avenue for breeders to sell common animals they cant move. As for the other species, many of them are bred and kept by people that work in the store. No one claimed to know as much as a long time keeper/breeder does about all species. No one knows everything about all species, including you. As I have been keeping for 15+ years though, I think I know a fair bit more than the average first reptile owner. Any good shop would also have a network of experienced keepers/breeders and a reputable reptile vet to call upon for help. As for having to get things eating, been there done that, not with CTS but with other snakes, that is to do with irresponsible morons selling on animals that don't eat well or haven't started feeding. We, and I assume most reputable shops, don't buy non feeding animals but just like a person that buys from a private breeder we can get conned occasionally and end up with difficult feeders. It's also about being able to draw information out of prospective buyers and ascertain their experience level, and before you ask, no we would not sell a species with specialist care requirements to a novice. Not going to go into what I can and can't do as but suffice it to say I know my limits and when to ask for help. You can doubt all you want but singling people out you get a bee in your bonnet about wont win you any friends, especially when backed up with inaccurate information.

 

[Anunnaki]

Um, maybe you should do something other than look at a website, AA do not sell green tree pythons as they are on advanced licence, try opening the link next time. As for the other things they sell, if you read my post carefully, you will see I said it would be an avenue for breeders to sell common animals they cant move. As for the other species, many of them are bred and kept by people that work in the store. No one claimed to know as much as a long time keeper/breeder does about all species. No one knows everything about all species, including you. As I have been keeping for 15+ years though, I think I know a fair bit more than the average first reptile owner. Any good shop would also have a network of experienced keepers/breeders and a reputable reptile vet to call upon for help. As for having to get things eating, been there done that, not with CTS but with other snakes, that is to do with irresponsible morons selling on animals that don't eat well or haven't started feeding. We, and I assume most reputable shops, don't buy non feeding animals but just like a person that buys from a private breeder we can get conned occasionally and end up with difficult feeders. It's also about being able to draw information out of prospective buyers and ascertain their experience level, and before you ask, no we would not sell a species with specialist care requirements to a novice. Not going to go into what I can and can't do as but suffice it to say I know my limits and when to ask for help. You can doubt all you want but singling people out you get a bee in your bonnet about wont win you any friends, especially when backed up with inaccurate information.

Um, maybe you should do something other than look at a website, AA do not sell green tree pythons

Where did I mention M. viridis? Green tree pythons and Green tree snakes are two different species.

So you agree that a longtime keeper/breeder would be more experienced but still claimed a cashier at a pet shop is a better source of information than gumtree....which a lot of people use to sell animals.

I'm not going to continue this discussion, there really is no point when the person you are arguing with keeps contradicting themselves....or claims to be knowledgeable yet can't ascertain the different between M. viridis and D. punctulata.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[KaotikJezta]

Where did I mention M. viridis? Green tree pythons and Green tree snakes are two different species.

So you agree that a longtime keeper/breeder would be more experienced but still claimed a cashier at a pet shop is a better source of information than gumtree....which a lot of people use to sell animals.

I'm not going to continue this discussion, there really is no point when the person you are arguing with keeps contradicting themselves....or claims to be knowledgeable yet can't ascertain the different between M. viridis and D. punctulata.

Thanks for the laugh.

My bad, I did read that wrong. At least I can admit it. You seem to have a real hang up with me, I already said in previous post that there is a BIG difference between a specialist reptile shop and a pet shop and you clearly have never worked in a specialist shop or you would know there is a lot more to it than being a cashier. As for gumtree, yes a few decent breeders sell on gumtree but so do a lot of other people that wouldn't have the first clue. A long time keeper and an employee/owner of a reptile store are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[thomasssss]

no but you still haven't answered why it will be any different to QLD and VIC in regards to private breeders dying out and pet shops making demands and complaining

WHY WILL NSW BE ANY DIFFERENT TO QLD , WHERE PRIVATE BREEDERS STILL FLOURISH , answer that please dont just tippy toe around the question

Where did I mention M. viridis? Green tree pythons and Green tree snakes are two different species.

So you agree that a longtime keeper/breeder would be more experienced but still claimed a cashier at a pet shop is a better source of information than gumtree....which a lot of people use to sell animals.

I'm not going to continue this discussion, there really is no point when the person you are arguing with keeps contradicting themselves....or claims to be knowledgeable yet can't ascertain the different between M. viridis and D. punctulata.

Thanks for the laugh.

what i find funny is that you didnt answer my above question , its the one in capital letters , im not surprised really as thats what alot of people do here , they will argue on the points that they want to but when someone poses a question that is hard for them to answer and kinda destroys their argument they just ignore it

i asked you not to tippy toe around that question and its exactly what you did typical , and you will probably do it again now , at least thanks to the notification function notifying you of this post i know that you will still see it

 

[KaotikJezta]

what i find funny is that you didnt answer my above question , its the one in capital letters , im not surprised really as thats what alot of people do here , they will argue on the points that they want to but when someone poses a question that is hard for them to answer and kinda destroys their argument they just ignore it

i asked you not to tippy toe around that question and its exactly what you did typical , and you will probably do it again now , at least thanks to the notification function notifying you of this post i know that you will still see it

I think he/she is putting too much effort into trying to belittle me to answer anyone else.

 

[thomasssss]

I think he/she is putting too much effort into trying to belittle me to answer anyone else.

maybe but the reality of it is that that question destroys his argument that private breeders will die off due to pet shops demands , it didn't happen in qld or vic , why the hell is it going to happen in nsw , thats why i think he avoided my question imo just like i thought he would

 

[PieBald]

So is this all reptiles big and small cause in old you can only have anterasia and small lizards

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So is this all reptiles big and small cause in old you can only have anterasia and small lizards

 

[Anunnaki]

maybe but the reality of it is that that question destroys his argument that private breeders will die off due to pet shops demands , it didn't happen in qld or vic , why the hell is it going to happen in nsw , thats why i think he avoided my question imo just like i thought he would

Where did I say it would "kill off" breeders? Go back and read my posts.
Then google "protected fauna" then google "Cites list and Noxious list" and then you will see how irrelevant your argument is.

I'm talking about licensing conditions and the welfare of the animals. Would be nice if you read the posts before jumping in with a redundant and childish question as you did.

 

[KaotikJezta]

Where did I say it would "kill off" breeders? Go back and read my posts.
Then google "protected fauna" then google "Cites list and Noxious list" and then you will see how irrelevant your argument is.

I'm talking about licensing conditions and the welfare of the animals. Would be nice if you read the posts before jumping in with a redundant and childish question as you did.

When zulu expressed that it would see the end of people buying from private breeders, not only did you agree, you gave this reply

"As with all things regarding the government the ones who bring in the most revenue have the most sway, it will only be a matter of time before the pet shops start to see how much money they are losing to the private trade and start complaining and demanding."

 

[Anunnaki]

When zulu expressed that it would see the end of people buying from private breeders, not only did you agree, you gave this reply

"As with all things regarding the government the ones who bring in the most revenue have the most sway, it will only be a matter of time before the pet shops start to see how much money they are losing to the private trade and start complaining and demanding."

Which was in regards to licensing...it's quite obvious.
I think you are a little upset because you didn't know the difference between a python and a colubrid:cry:

 

[KaotikJezta]

Which was in regards to licensing...it's quite obvious.
I think you are a little upset because you didn't know the difference between a python and a colubrid:cry:

Considering I used to live in an area of Northern NSW where they were quite tree snakes were quite prolific I am pretty sure I do, but of course you know more about me than I do so maybe not. I guess your a wealth of knowledge with google at your fingertips.

 

[wokka]

At the moment many NSW breeders sell to dealers in other states, who then export the individual animals back to buyers in the states where the animals were originally bred, It seems a waste and unecessary trauma. I expect if pet shop sales are allowed they will be restricted to a few committed shops with the necessary credentials. What is the latest guess of what is going to happen? Has there been any official word or is everyone jumping at shadows?

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I can see in this thread why i oppose some like jamie (pythoninfinite) and warrick (Wokka) representing my interests as a hobbyist on committees to DECCW.

Committees need to include people who can consider the facts unemotionally and their effect on the hobby as a whole, rather than just representing only your interests. It would be a little pointless if everyone in a committee held the same view. My experience with DECCW Committees is that any decision DECCW makes in regard to petshops has not been discussed with hobbiest representatives. I believe the pet industry's PIAA has had some discussions with DECCW.

 

[Ramsayi]

Committees need to include people who can consider the facts unemotionally and their effect on the hobby as a whole, rather than just representing only your interests. It would be a little pointless if everyone in a committee held the same view.

The trouble with these committees is that the only agendas that get pushed are the ones the committee members hold.When representing reptile societies the position of those members should be the ones being forwarded.

 

[wokka]

The trouble with these committees is that the only agendas that get pushed are the ones the committee members hold.When representing reptile societies the position of those members should be the ones being forwarded.

The trouble with recent DECCW advisory committees is that unfortunately DECCW choses to ignore them when the committees views differred from that of DECCW.

 

[Monitors_R_Us]

I think he/she is putting too much effort into trying to belittle me to answer anyone else.

I think you did that well enough yourself tbh.

 

[KaotikJezta]

I think you did that well enough yourself tbh.

Oh well. we're all entitled to our opinions

 

[wokka]

I agree. Let's be honest, the government doesn't give 2 hoots about reptiles or their welfare all they care about is money. Imagine the revenue they will be making when they allow pet shops to start selling reptiles, not only will they be charging shops the exorbitant amount for the right to sell them but the influx of new licenses that will come from it.
As with all things regarding the government the ones who bring in the most revenue have the most sway, it will only be a matter of time before the pet shops start to see how much money they are losing to the private trade and start complaining and demanding.

I honestly can't understand why any avid reptile keeper would support the selling of reptiles in shops, we see enough exploitation of reptiles in the private trade yet alone on a commercial scale. Time for the government to grow a set and stop giving in to demands simply because it will produce revenue.

Governments tend to be swayed by votes rather than money. Do you think they would favour few hundred petshops over tens of thousands of keepers? If or When reptiles are allowed in petshops it will be because the Government thinks more voters support it than oppose it. I doubt that a few thousand dollars in licence fees will influence the decision either way. I would think that strict standards will be required for petshops to display or sell reptiles, which judging by the emotion in this thread, will be scutinised by the public. Has anyone sighted any such standards yet or is this discussion based upon rumour?

 

[Anunnaki]

Governments tend to be swayed by votes rather than money. Do you think they would favour few hundred petshops over tens of thousands of keepers? If or When reptiles are allowed in petshops it will be because the Government thinks more voters support it than oppose it. I doubt that a few thousand dollars in licence fees will influence the decision either way. I would think that strict standards will be required for petshops to display or sell reptiles, which judging by the emotion in this thread, will be scutinised by the public. Has anyone sighted any such standards yet or is this discussion based upon rumour?

Well when those pet shops start bringing in tens of thousands of keepers in a short amount of time, yes I do think they would favor them. They haven't really done private keepers any favors since I have held my license so why would I think otherwise? And who are these voters you speak of? Is it people on these committees like yourself who never share anything of what goes on with us regular keepers because I sure don't ever remember getting asked my opinion on anything to do with reptile keeping. Or is it parliament members who get the vote? The same ones who vote for major land destruction to anyone who has the $$ to lull them?

I personally feel some people are rubbing their hands together drooling because they have vested interests in the laws passing, such as higher rodent sales and a perfect time to enter the commercial market on a large scale?

 

[wokka]

Well when those pet shops start bringing in tens of thousands of keepers in a short amount of time, yes I do think they would favor them. They haven't really done private keepers any favors since I have held my license so why would I think otherwise? And who are these voters you speak of? Is it people on these committees like yourself who never share anything of what goes on with us regular keepers because I sure don't ever remember getting asked my opinion on anything to do with reptile keeping. Or is it parliament members who get the vote? The same ones who vote for major land destruction to anyone who has the $$ to lull them?

I personally feel some people are rubbing their hands together drooling because they have vested interests in the laws passing, such as higher rodent sales and a perfect time to enter the commercial market on a large scale?

Petshops will only be able to sell the animals which breeders breed. They cant just pluck them out of the air so there should be no more extra keepers than if animals were sold in McDonalds carparks.

I am not on any committee discussing sale of reptiles in shops- is there one? I am/was on a committee discissing Code of Practice for keeping reptiles but DECCW virtually cut off communications about 2 years ago because the committe didn't agree with their agenda.

Do animals sold in petshops eat more rodents than animals sold direct from breeders? As a major Rodent producer i dont think the method of sale will effect the feed requirements.

 

[jacks-pythons]

Has anyone here bought any herps from shops in other states? if so was there a major difference between them and breeders??? size and temperament??