Reptiles in NSW pet shop

[junglepython2]

Has anyone here bought any herps from shops in other states? if so was there a major difference between them and breeders??? size and temperament??

I did once, petshops often throw in freebies like mites free of charge.

 

[Monitors_R_Us]

I hope in NSW makes a specialist reptile shop such as AmazingAmazon ( Because as for petshop prices go, theirs is very reasonable ) :lol:

 

[Rob]

I hope in NSW makes a specialist reptile shop such as AmazingAmazon ( Because as for petshop prices go, theirs is very reasonable ) :lol:

There is one specialist shop (that I know of), and another major pet store that is not far off being a specialist reptile outlet.

 

[Monitors_R_Us]

There is one specialist shop (that I know of), and another major pet store that is not far off being a specialist reptile outlet.

What are they called? Don't say ..... because they're are the biggest rip and have the smallest venue haha.

 

[Rob]

What are they called? Don't say .... because they're are the biggest rip and have the smallest venue haha.

Non-sponsors, so a PM is headed your way.

 

[Monitors_R_Us]

Non-sponsors, so a PM is headed your way.

Ty.

 

[Doccee]

I'm undecided on the matter, it would be good in the aspect of the exposure of snakes to a larger portion of the community therefore raising the awareness that snakes are a beautiful pet and it might help stop people reaching for the shovel when they come across a wild one, that said I have seen more bad pet stores then good and I would worry about the quality of A. The bloodline and B. How they are kept. I personally don't think I would get a snake from a petshop, I wouldn't get a dog, Cat or bird from one either.

 

[Anunnaki]

what i find funny is that you didnt answer my above question , its the one in capital letters , im not surprised really as thats what alot of people do here , they will argue on the points that they want to but when someone poses a question that is hard for them to answer and kinda destroys their argument they just ignore it

i asked you not to tippy toe around that question and its exactly what you did typical , and you will probably do it again now , at least thanks to the notification function notifying you of this post i know that you will still see it

I ignored you because I have seen some of your other posts and quite honestly didn't feel my time was well spent replying. Schoolyard reverse psychology doesn't often work on adults so the whole "You didn't answer me because you couldn't" is quite laughable and childish.
Had you posted a relevant question I would have been more than happy to answer it but alas, it was not so I did not.

In future try to put your point across without the unnecessary caps lock and lame attempts at belittling someone, especially when your argument is based of speculation alone.

 

[MyMitchie]

I work at a pet store that sells snakes AND have bought a snake from a pet store. My honest opinion: Pet store snakes are not nearly as good as breeders snakes. I personally took care of the snake I bought at the pet store and I can tell you now we do not get enough time to handle the snakes. Husbandry is fine, we get that correct but to spend some time with the snakes handling them is hard. I am also the only one at the store who can comfortably handle the snakes and as I am only casual I don't get a lot of days in a week to even have a hold. I also own a breeder snake and am utterly impressed at her behaviour when handled.

I would also like to share a sad sad story of one of my snakes siblings that I sold to someone. When someone is interested in purchasing a snake off us I make sure they hold the snake first so they are confident in holding it. Then I make sure they have a suitable click clack set up. This particular person was fine with all of this, described their click clack and said they had had snakes for 30 years and kept telling me they knew a lot more about them than me. They came back a few months later complaining we sold them an evil snake and upon further probing questions he had taken it home and immediately housed it with two 8ft pythons, was under feeding it and told me if we didn't do anything he was going to kill it. I offered to take care of it for a month and he'd see a difference, once again he told me I knew nothing but agreed to it. He never showed.
My point to this story? This whole issue could of happened quite easily to a breeder selling their snake to someone and didn't happen just because we are a pet store.

PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ONLY.

 

[Stevo2]

The thing is that nothing is going to change for anyone here on APS - you'll keep trading/buying/selling the way you always have. The shops will merely open up a new market sector, giving rise to the possibility of you being able to offload some of your stock to them rather than direct to other hobbyists. Licensing isn't changing.

 

[wokka]

The thing is that nothing is going to change for anyone here on APS - you'll keep trading/buying/selling the way you always have. The shops will merely open up a new market sector, giving rise to the possibility of you being able to offload some of your stock to them rather than direct to other hobbyists. Licensing isn't changing.

More to the point it gives buyers an alternative to dealing with private, often secretive seller culture. Not everyone wants to be involved with aps.

 

[Morgan_dragon]

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Yes to the first question in a separate room at the other end of the shop. Animals from said breeders are put into the main reptile room but only put up for sale when I am satisfied they are eating well for me. I would send them away and offer them a chance to come back when the animal is ready which is not usually a problem to first time buyers but can lead to losing a sale with others. Many people are happy to layby the animal and complete set-up and it gives them a little time to save up. Just to clarify the set-up thing, I tell all buyers of juvie snakes to house them in a click clack.

So you quarantine baby beardies for 3 months before selling them? I'm sorry but what a load of rubbish, the mark up you would need to make a decent profit on a bub would make it not worth your while....and the tail and toe nips etc experienced from housing that many for that long would have you selling them damaged. Unless your going to tell us you split them over half a dozen tanks? Wow that would be a big quarantine room considering the stock turnover a shop goes through in that period.

Most stores in my experience that supply beardies and reptiles MAY quarantine them in a separate room for a week while they settle them in and make sure they feed before sale....and then move them to yet another enclosure to display and sell them.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

The trouble with these committees is that the only agendas that get pushed are the ones the committee members hold.When representing reptile societies the position of those members should be the ones being forwarded.

That's a very disingenuous view Mark, and not true at all in the case of the advisory group appointed by (then DECCW). Perhaps you are judging others by your own standards, since you hold very strong and probably unbendable views yourself. As a member of the advisory committee for the proposed NSW Reptile Keepers Code of Practice, along with Wokka, John Weigel, Dr Peter Harlow (from Taronga), John Cann, Dr Glenn Shea, Mike Duncan and a number of other very experienced reptile people (12 in all, and all appointed because of their professional experience or as REPRESENTATIVES OF NSW HERPETOLOGICAL SOCIETIES), I can say that NOT ONE of the individuals involved pushed any selfish motive or private agendas. A number of the individuals have very strong academic careers, and although they have collectively a deep interest in herpetology, they demonstrate around 400 years of collective experience. All of us gave up many hours of our time, both in discussion between ourselves, and with DECCW at Hurstville. In my case every meeting involved a 400km each-way trip to Sydney, and therefore involved considerable expense in time and money. And I haven't bred any reptiles for 4 years!

I suspect that they were, as I was, NOMINATED by members of their respective Herp Societies, to represent the interests of their group and NSW keepers in general. This is not the first time you've given these people a backhander, it's a cheap shot for you and it seems like you have a great big chip on your shoulder. I suggest that if you were a member of any Herp Society, you could have just as easily put yourself forward to be included in the group... perhaps you did but you weren't nominated?

Now, to explain a few facts about the discussions we had:

1. It became obvious from the start that DECCW was intent on mandating enclosure sizes (making them compulsory), and the unanimous view of the Advisory Group was that this was unsatisfactory, for many reasons.
2. We thought we had reached an agreement with DECCW that recommended enclosure sizes would be "guidelines," rather than bureaucratically imposed, enforceable in law standards, but individuals in DII (Dept of Industry and Investment) who have an idealogical investment in this process, insisted that they MUST be mandated. It was becoming more and more evident that this was the outcome the officers in DECCW wanted, regardless of sensible input from our vastly experienced group.
3. We were unable to get any further direct communication with DECCW, other than a meeting with the Dept head and the two DECCW officers, at which we were further stalled with promises of communication which did not eventuate.
4. Our group was even unable to get copies of the final proposed CoP from DECCW for us to examine, and had to resort to FOI to obtain a copy. We also sought information relevant to the CoP from DII, as we were aware that the process was at least being driven equally by that department. DECCW would not release an electronic copy to all members, I guess because they did not want it widely circulated as an easily transmitted PDF.
5. I can show you a long list of emails which were sent to various senior officeholders in DECCW, which either drew more stalling responses, or no response at all.
6. It is very clear that DECCW (now DEH) has done all it can to keep the less palatable aspects of the Code of Practice (and make no mistake, the enclosure size legislation will heavily impact private and commercial keepers, the Reptile Park, Zoos and anyone who keeps reptiles under intense management conditions, regardless of the health and wellbeing of the animals themselves).
7. It is obvious that the Code of Practice was to be slid into law at the same time as regulations proclaiming the sale of reptiles from commercial outlets in NSW, but both groups (ours and that representing commercial outlets) were kept totally separate by DECCW, in fact the existence of this parallel negotiation was never referred to al all. I guess the hope has been that the joy many keepers will experience by freeing up commercial sale legislation would be a sweetener for the sting in the tail of the Code of Practice. Hide the nasty behind a great fanfare of self-congratulatory hoo-haa...

The matter is still ongoing, as the issue of mandating enclosure sizes has not been resolved. The intention was to enact both pieces of legislation at the same time, for the reasons I have noted above, so until matters pertaining to the Code of Practice are sorted (which should be soon), it is unlikely that the commercial matter will be enacted independently.

A large number of people have given up significant amounts of their time in the interests of reptile keepers in NSW to try and resolve issues which should have been dealt with transparently by DECCW from the start - the Department has had the agenda all along, and it is typical of some sourpuss keepers who feel left out of the loop that they take cheap shots at those working on their behalf. It's one of the reasons why it is so difficult to keep everybody "in the loop" - there are so many wreckers within the hobby that anyone who tries to do the right thing will still be pulled down and dismembered by those who feel left out.

You can please some of the people some of the time...

Jamie

 

[KaotikJezta]

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So you quarantine baby beardies for 3 months before selling them? I'm sorry but what a load of rubbish, the mark up you would need to make a decent profit on a bub would make it not worth your while....and the tail and toe nips etc experienced from housing that many for that long would have you selling them damaged. Unless your going to tell us you split them over half a dozen tanks? Wow that would be a big quarantine room considering the stock turnover a shop goes through in that period.

Most stores in my experience that supply beardies and reptiles MAY quarantine them in a separate room for a week while they settle them in and make sure they feed before sale....and then move them to yet another enclosure to display and sell them.

Our beardies only come from two people that have sold them to us since before I got there. I house them maximum 4 to a tank but usually two. I don't put them out until they are big enough as sometimes some are, IMO, too small to go out even at 6 weeks. This is generally due to the breeder keeping them all together, not us. Our quarantine section is almost as big as the reptile sale section. Feel free to come have a look but I will guarantee we never have more than 4 babies out at a time as I wont risk overcrowding the tank.

 

[Morgan_dragon]

So you don't quarantine everything as stated before, how can you guarantee these bubs don't have salmonella etc? Because they come from a breeder you have purchased off for a few years? Has the breeders collection changed in that time? Have you kept any to make sure they are nice healthy adults? Most beardie bubs look healthy at 4 weeks of age....

You may only hold 4 bubs out on the shop floor but how are the rest of the clutch housed in quarantine? How are you separating all the reptiles from different breeders? There aren't to many breeders around that are set up to supply the complete needs of a store meaning you can have more then one breeders stock in quarantine at a time. Or you just trust that those in quarantine don't cross contaminate each other?

Its only my personal opinion but I find it very hard to believe that you would bother quarantining a whole clutch of children's for 3 months before they go on sale either.....all that stock paid for and just sitting there when the profit is not much better then that of a beardie bub.....

I'm not trying to be awful but you seem to be trying to make yourself out to be some perfect reptile shop guru and in just questioning your practices over the bearded babies that most shops sell it seems your practice is no different to most QLD shops I have dealt with and supplied in the past.

If you don't want to draw the fire of scrutiny from members perhaps don't make it personally about you and your shop as you have or take the scrutiny to heart as its obvious you did with other members.

There are plenty of pet shops and specialty shops that have got it right or are atleast trying to and plenty of people that both work in shops and own them that have a personal interest in herps. Considering in NSW they were only talking about shops being able to sell a handful of 'basic' reptiles (from this my personal opinion would be things like beardies, spotteds and or childrens a frog and turtle of some description possibly) I think alot of people have gone overboard in their reactions.

Considering how many people there are in NSW breeding and supplying these animals to shops interstate as someone else already mentioned they will basically be cutting out the freight charges...if people from NSW are silly enough to buy a spotted or something from interstate at shop prices and ship it then why not make it commercially available here?

On a personal note, the two pet shops we supply rodents to are both run by licensed reptile breeders that have the skills and knowledge to do this properly. What's the difference in the shop being licensed to sell and display reptiles or simply having the owner breed anyway? To me? We get to see some pretty reps on display when we drop the rodents off and pick up our weekly cricket supplies etc. and the owners of the store can have their staff trained to help them care for their reptiles....

 

[KaotikJezta]

We are not perfect and I never said otherwise. The babies are housed in a seperate bank out of the shop. The breeders only breed beardies and are not large commercial entities. As stated before, we don't buy beardies under 6 weeks of age and I have seen many of the babies we have sold as adults as most people come back to buy food, lighting etc. I know our quarantine facilities are not ideal but how many quarantine rooms does the average breeder have room for. We also tell people to quarrantine as well so that is double quarrantine if you like No one is perfect, some of us that work in shops were just trying to point out that not all shops don't care about the animals they sell. As far as keeping childrens for 3 months, my boss wont buy childrens so that wont ever happen but we do have some jungles we have had since last season as they were sold with false feeding records and I had to get them all eating. Like I said earlier, the bulk of our profit comes from equipment and fish, the reptiles are a draw card. As for taking it personally, that depends on the mood I am in when I read the post, haha.

 

[Anunnaki]

We are not perfect and I never said otherwise. The babies are housed in a seperate bank out of the shop. The breeders only breed beardies and are not large commercial entities. As stated before, we don't buy beardies under 6 weeks of age and I have seen many of the babies we have sold as adults as most people come back to buy food, lighting etc. I know our quarantine facilities are not ideal but how many quarantine rooms does the average breeder have room for. We also tell people to quarrantine as well so that is double quarrantine if you like No one is perfect, some of us that work in shops were just trying to point out that not all shops don't care about the animals they sell. As far as keeping childrens for 3 months, my boss wont buy childrens so that wont ever happen but we do have some jungles we have had since last season as they were sold with false feeding records and I had to get them all eating. Like I said earlier, the bulk of our profit comes from equipment and fish, the reptiles are a draw card. As for taking it personally, that depends on the mood I am in when I read the post, haha.

I always here these amazing stories of "unfeeding" snakes, 90% of the time it's from the new keepers inexperience rather than the snakes.

 

[thomasssss]

I always here these amazing stories of "unfeeding" snakes, 90% of the time it's from the new keepers inexperience rather than the snakes.

tippy toe on then my friend , tippy toe on

 

[KaotikJezta]

I always here these amazing stories of "unfeeding" snakes, 90% of the time it's from the new keepers inexperience rather than the snakes.

Ok, whatever you want to think.

 

[Anunnaki]

Breach of rule one and two.