Show off your Co-dominant morphs

[yommy]

How can Jags be legal? Also how is it legal to cross them with other native carpets?

I think it comes down to how can the authorities prove it and live in NSW......

they are here to stay and it seems the quality is only going to get better and better......

 

[-Matt-]

Probably the best looking co-dom in here...

 

[Choco]

How can Jags be legal? Also how is it legal to cross them with other native carpets?

I think I asked it on another thread but anyway...what does a jag or RPM, assuming it's not pure coastal, get put under on your record book.

Cheers,
Allan

 

[PimmsPythons]

I think I asked it on another thread but anyway...what does a jag or RPM, assuming it's not pure coastal, get put under on your record book.

Cheers,
Allan

morelia spilota

 

[PimmsPythons]

How can Jags be legal? Also how is it legal to cross them with other native carpets?

Lack of evidence to be proved otherwise.
most states only require "carpet python" and "morelia spilota" to be marked down on movement advices.i'd say that this is how most will be done.
cheers
simon

 

[larks]

View attachment 160207

LARKS,
Is your animal (cyrus) a true ORANGE PEPPER or just a really good hypo and is it a RPM/JAG? I ask this becuase myself and SXR are the only 2 people who have animals of that age, as I didnt sell you that animal and neither did SXR and SXR were the first to breed and coin the name ORANGE PEPPER it would be good to clarify. The ORANGE PEPPER/CARAMEL gene is very unique and completely different to the hypo genetics, above is a pic of a true ORANGE PEPPER or CARAMEL not a hypo RPM/JAG.....

According to the breeder of the original orange peppers this is not the case. The true orange peppers came from a RPM/jag bred to a really nice hypo coastal that was bred by trueblue, not a caramel. So breeding a jag to a caramel doesn't make an orange pepper it just makes a caramel jag and by the look of your pic it is still an awesome looking animal.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I second Larks. To be a hundred percent correct, it was a suspected jungle rpm X hypo.

 

[andyh]

Some stunning animals here people, keep em comming!

 

[matt123]

yea i would love some of those peppers, wink wink haha, keep us posted larks, and keep the co dom pics coming guys

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

According to the breeder of the original orange peppers this is not the case. The true orange peppers came from a RPM/jag bred to a really nice hypo coastal that was bred by trueblue, not a caramel. So breeding a jag to a caramel doesn't make an orange pepper it just makes a caramel jag and by the look of your pic it is still an awesome looking animal.

In that case then your explanation and what the original breeder explains confirms there is a substantial difference between ORANGE PEPPER JAGS and CARAMEL JAGS, these 2 morphs have been referred to in the past as the same morph. However I and many others have had doubts, as my animals dont look like your or SXR's ORANGE PEPPERS.

More so my animals look like true CARAMELS seen elsewhere...... and since the parents of mine are not hypos and they produce the correct ratio and also the correct phenotype that corresponds with the CARAMELS. Therefore like you say the animals I have bred and posted are actually true CARAMELS and what you have are true ORANGE PEPPERS or like you say hypo coastal jags that trace back to trueblues hypo coastals and a RPM/JAG.....

This above explanations sound quite trivial, however it is good to confirm there is a difference between the 2 morphs....

 

[Southside Morelia]

well said fusion, summed up pretty damn well.

IMO pricing is going to depend on availability and quality. New cross's and higher % RPM/JAGS will hold for some years to come....

I too agree, well said Fusion. I am pulling my hair out to see what you guys produce over the next few years..."face melters" LMAO love it!!!..they will put the shizzle in my whizzle for sure.....LOL
Where do you get those tags from? Keep up the good work guys!

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

Quality jags from good blood lines will always sell for a premium price............ However i should imagine that the same thing that happened over here will happen there. People will buy jags of poor quality and not care that they are fugly, and then outcross them to poor examples of jungle's/coastal/ ij's etc,etc just to make more jags and more MONEY. Not caring that the end result is more fugly jags and fugly mutt sib's.
However if you get a good jag from great bloodlines and breed him to a trophy jungle/coastal etc, then the resulting offspring will be of a quality that will demand a higher price.

Yes the same thing will happen over here, however it has already happened with our regular Carpets, although it appears the message has sunk in.....breed for quality or dont breed at all.

All you need to do to prove this is look at our classifieds and see how many average examples of JUNGLES, DIAMONDS, BREDLI etc that people have bred and cant sell for a fraction of what they were worth 12 months ago. Sure people will cross them over whatever they can to make a quick buck, but the majority of buyers and breeders now realise its quality not quantity........Just take a look at Colin, JungleFreak, the Devil and some others, still selling quality Jungles for above $450 and even close to $1000, unlike the masses selling Jungles for $150 - $200.

Like I said the future is quality not quantity........

 

[Southside Morelia]

Does any international members have pics of Jags when they have matured, 5 year olds plus??

Would like to see how they turn out as most pics are of young 'hot" looking animals....

I for one, wouldn't buy a "fugly" why????

 

[Camo]

Yes the same thing will happen over here, however it has already happened with our regular Carpets, although it appears the message has sunk in.....breed for quality or dont breed at all.

All you need to do to prove this is look at our classifieds and see how many average examples of JUNGLES, DIAMONDS, BREDLI etc that people have bred and cant sell for a fraction of what they were worth 12 months ago. Sure people will cross them over whatever they can to make a quick buck, but the majority of buyers and breeders now realise its quality not quantity........Just take a look at Colin, JungleFreak, the Devil and some others, still selling quality Jungles for above $450 and even close to $1000, unlike the masses selling Jungles for $150 - $200.

Like I said the future is quality not quantity........

I have to agree yet disagree at the same time Barra. While most of us will go for quality animals (which is what should be done) i bet you if you put up Jungles for $50 they would sell before the $450 ones to most people regardless of quality. Its just how most people are these days. To many care about saving a buck than the actual quality of the animals.

With working in the pet industry for years i have seen this all to many times.

You see people selling whole clutches of non feeding ordinary carpets and people snap them up all day every day without them even having a first shed or feed. This to me says there is still quantity over quality being bought.

At the end of the day it would be great to see only quality animals produced but like you said there is just to many people in it for the money and not the passion.

Cameron

 

[Camo]

The thing is with these "fugly" ones is like Barra and kenneally said most people just wont care.

They may start out with a fugly RPM/JAG and think "who cares, at least i have one" but they will breed it until they get a nice looking RPM. This process could result in dozens of fugly animals before a nice one is produced. So what happens to the fugly ones? Well the above process will go on and on with the new keepers buying, thinking and doing the same thing.

With them being co-dom there will be so many rubbish crosses going around in a few years. What is to be done with the normal crosses (not being RPM) if they are not carrying a particular gene. They will be sold off for the price of a can of coke which will result in more people breeding them and more rubbish animals.

I would love it to be all about quality but its just ones of those thingsthat some people wont stick to, which is a shame.

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

Breeding till they get a nice one is going to take some time, say 3-4 seasons at best and by that time they will be well and truely behind the 8 ball in terms of progress......and yes it will produce fugly ones that will be cheap. But thats all their ever going to be, cheap fugly unwanted jags that the majority of keepers wouldnt look at....

eg, I know I would rather pay $2 500 for a 75% or 88% RPM/JAG than pay, say $1 000 for a standard coastal RPM/JAG.......

I understand I probably dont think like every herper out there, but if I want to be at the sharp end of the hobby then I look for quality and less available morphs over run of the mill animals......Although not everyones budget allows this mentality, so therefore opening up the market to the cheaper more readily available RPM/JAG market.....JMO

 

[larks]

In that case then your explanation and what the original breeder explains confirms there is a substantial difference between ORANGE PEPPER JAGS and CARAMEL JAGS, these 2 morphs have been referred to in the past as the same morph. However I and many others have had doubts, as my animals dont look like your or SXR's ORANGE PEPPERS.

More so my animals look like true CARAMELS seen elsewhere...... and since the parents of mine are not hypos and they produce the correct ratio and also the correct phenotype that corresponds with the CARAMELS. Therefore like you say the animals I have bred and posted are actually true CARAMELS and what you have are true ORANGE PEPPERS or like you say hypo coastal jags that trace back to trueblues hypo coastals and a RPM/JAG.....

This above explanations sound quite trivial, however it is good to confirm there is a difference between the 2 morphs....

However trivial the explanation may sound, I think at this early stage of breeding jags (or RPMs as some like to say) here in OZ, it is important that we be as honest and truthful as we can about what is bred into them right from the start.

 

[Camo]

Breeding till they get a nice one is going to take some time, say 3-4 seasons at best and by that time they will be well and truely behind the 8 ball in terms of progress......and yes it will produce fugly ones that will be cheap. But thats all their ever going to be, cheap fugly unwanted jags that the majority of keepers wouldnt look at....

eg, I know I would rather pay $2 500 for a 75% or 88% RPM/JAG than pay, say $1 000 for a standard coastal RPM/JAG.......

I understand I probably dont think like every herper out there, but if I want to be at the sharp end of the hobby then I look for quality and less available morphs over run of the mill animals......Although not everyones budget allows this mentality, so therefore opening up the market to the cheaper more readily available RPM/JAG market.....JMO

Totally agree there.

Getting a quality RPM out of an ordinary one will deffinately take time but it will be done which means there will be plenty of standard stuff floating about.

I am in the same boat when it comes to quality. I buy quality and dont mind spending that little bit extra for quality animals.

 

[Camo]

Also, just wondering, heard Coastal Jags brought up, now whats the deal with coastal jag sibs. Do you think that the sibs are just standard coastal carpets seeing as overseas they are considered to have no magical properties, or should be sold with the tag "coastal jag sibling". No loaded question, just in my opinion, Jan Eric has been clear as mud about the origins, and has seemed to shoot through with the cash, rather than deliver his promised tell all article. So as a purist I am sceptical, and as such would implicate on my future purchases of coastal carpets if I was to know that there was a Jag sib somewhere back in the line.

They should be sold as coastals if you have bred a RPM coastal to a normal coastal. 50% will be RPM coastals and the other 50% will be normal coastals. They dont carry any hidden gene so they should be sold as coastals. That wont be the problem IMO. The harder part will be selling the 50% non RPM hatchies if you mate a Coastal RPM to a Jungle.

These are things that need to be clearly told when selling. I think some people will try and palm off these hybrid standards as pure.

 

[larks]

All coastal jags or RPM sibs should be sold as coastal jag sibs as that is what they are. 50% of the clutch may apear to be just normal coastals, but there is no way of knowing what is really in a jag or RPM to start with .... JMO