Temperatures... Too many opinions.

[mrbaggins]

Okay, so reading everything I can lay my hands on (here and elsewhere) has just confused me completely. So far, I have the following 'facts' that seem consistent:
1 - Heat juvenile snakes (up to about 2 years old) all day, all night, to around 30º
2 - The daytime basking spot for almost all snakes, all year round should be around 32º
3 - There needs to be a heat gradient from the max to a lower temperature.

Other than that, there are a million other numbers, and another million opinions of them.

First up, is night time heating. Some say turn all heating off with the sun going down. Turn it all on with the crack of dawn. (Or bedtime/uptime). This lets the temperature drop overnight to 'natural' temperatures, whilst letting the snake get it's normal 32º basking spot during the day.

Second big problem, seasons. Do you drop the daytime basking spot temperature at all? Do you turn heating off overnight in winter only to let the cage get cooler? Do you turn it off only in summer because winter is TOO cold? Do you do the bedtime/uptime heating all year round and just let nature work out the coldness whilst heating gives a nice warm spot in the day? Does breeding change your opinion here?

Third, the heat gradient. If the basking spot (warmest part of cage) is 32º, what should the coldest spot be? Is it season dependent? Does it matter if it's daytime or nighttime? Does it not matter as long as SOME place in the enclosure is >30º?

For the record, I'm getting an Antaresia (probably Stimson's). It's a 2ft Exo terra tank, currently with just a 20W heatmat. Testing it now to see what the warmest spot in the enclosure is getting too without a basking light. Overnight temps here in Wagga can hit 0º outside in Winter. Summer temps overnight can remain above 25º.

(Oh, and for anyone wondering, to type a º symbol, hold the Alt button down, type 167 with the numpad, then let go of Alt)

Lots of questions, but would like some more definitive answers

 

[junglepython2]

There are plenty of different methods and no single 'right' way so you will not get one single answer that everyone agrees on.

I no longer bother heating adult pythons at night but plenty of people do. And ideally the cool spot would be as low as room temp which fluctuates during the seasons naturally.

 

[mrbaggins]

My main concern at the moment is that the 20W heatmat is getting to a highest temperature inside the tank of 30º at the moment, with no substrate. I'm going to need to get a heating lamp aren't I?

 

[Fantazmic]

Hi Mr Baggins

Different snakes need different temperatures
I strongly recommend Mike Swans book keeping Australian Pythons. He goes into intimate detail of the different requirements for the different breeds of snakes. each breed needs dofferent things...there is no one size fits all
Juvenile snakes should be kept warm and not cooled until they have finished growing. This is around 18 months of age. They should be kept warm at the temps that are appropriate for them

Also glass tanks are not recommended for keeping snakes. They are too hard to keep warm and you will end up spending in power bills what you save in not buying an appropriate enclosure.
The glass loses heat too quickly

Regards

Elizabeth

 

[Elapidae1]

Have you put a hide over the heat mat and checked the temp inside the hide? I had a small hide over a heat mat for my stimson when he was 9 months old, the temp was always around 36 degrees this was with the smallest heat mat available, he was kept in the same enclosure for near 9 months, heated 24/7.

 

[mrbaggins]

My heat mat seems quite weak... I've finally got a layer of aspen over the bottom of the tank, and this has made it even harder to keep the tank warm. Here in Wagga we're down to 7º at night now (will be 0 before long) outside. The tank is getting down to around 15º without the heat mat on, and sticking at 20 when it is (This is night temp). I've got some smooth pond pebble type things (big ones) that are quite warm on the hot side and very cool on the cool side, so the heat is getting into the enclosure... I'm just concerned that during winter the heating I have is not going to be enough. I know that the temperature can drop a fair bit below the 24-34 that it should be in summer, but I'm concerned that it is dropping too far still....

I'll stick the probe into the hide when I get home this afternoon.

Two weeks away from my new Stimson's, max. Can't wait.

 

[optix85]

also - for glass - +1 to losing heat, but another problem is venting and air flow, you need to have air coming in, heating up, and escaping through the top, my first snake died due to blister disease because it had glass and stale air (only a top vent).
air flow = good

 

[mrbaggins]

It's an exo terra vivarium with intake at the front, and huge metal grill at the top. Half of the top is covered with a light canopy which helps avoid heat loss.

Is it possible the heat mat is faulty? I hear tales of these causing burns, but this thing can run 24-7 and you could handle it pretty easily. (It's also an exo terra mat, desert version)

 

[ingie]

Maybe you could try insulating the sides and back of the tank to keep some of the heat in? Polystyrene is a great insulator and you can make some pretty awesome looking backdrops with it by hacking it up a bit to look like a rock wall and then rendering or painting it with non toxic paint... even mix some sand into the paint for a great effect...... I got a whole bunch of free polystyrene boxes from the supermarket and fruit market...

And don't forget that the temperature of the floor of your tank will be warmer than the air inside so if your snake is cold he will stay on the heatmat......

 

[Elapidae1]

Heat mats have very little affect on ambient temps, this is the reason I suggested putting the hide over it. Have you tried to insulate the tank with foam, cardboard, wood etc, I would suggest that using this method your snake will be fine it will just spend most of it's time in the hide. My stimmie pulled through a winter like this, though probably without the extreme low temps that you get. another option is a small heat fan to circulate a bit of warm air through your enclosure

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Off topic, but that degree symbol trick is easy compared to how I've been doing it before! Maybe I'm the only one who didn't know about it!

Fan assisted heat = shedding problems and reduced heat gradient. All the snake needs in cooler weather is one spot which is warm & comfortable, it will probably not want to venture too far from the shelter in winter.
Jamie.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Oops...

 

[Elapidae1]

Off topic, but that degree symbol trick is easy compared to how I've been doing it before! Maybe I'm the only one who didn't know about it!

Fan assisted heat = shedding problems and reduced heat gradient. All the snake needs in cooler weather is one spot which is warm & comfortable, it will probably not want to venture too far from the shelter in winter.
Jamie.

I have not used a heat fan before, could you please explain why especially with a Stimmie this would cause shedding problems. I suggested this to increase ambient temps, not as the primary heat source, though I agree it,s not necessary as the snake will do just fine with the heat mat.

Mrbaggins your heat mat should easily reach temps between 30-35

 

[mrbaggins]

It kind of does, directly on the glass...

The set up is the heat mat stuck to the bottom of the vivarium (Designed to be used like this). If I take all the substrate out, and stick the probe directly on the glass, its probably is 35. Sitting a few mm above the glass, it reads around 30. With 2 inches of aspen bedding, the top of the substrate is around 20. Inside a small hide, which sits on top of the Aspen, I'm getting 28 (Still climbing very slowly... Might hit 29).

My understanding on heat fans is that they dry the hell out of the air, making it difficult to shed for most snakes... No idea how bad it really is.

Edit: It seems the glass is the problem. I stuck another thermometer (The probe on my thermostat with digi readout) UNDER the enclosure, a couple mm below the heat mat. It's over 40º under there (45 and still slowly creeping up now).

Should I maybe put a really thin piece of styrofoam (or alfoil?) under it to reflect the heat up?

 

[mrbaggins]

Can't edit now...
It hit 50º underneath the tank. The glass on the inside is nearly too hot to touch. The top of the substrate doesn't even feel warm. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and by a small heat lamp.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Fan-forced heat is very drying, which is why those fan-forced heat lamps are badnews - they sound like a great idea to anyone who doesn't understand the microhabitat needs of snakes. Put anything in front of warm dry air and it will dry out much faster thanin still air. Snakes need to develop a separating fluid layer between the old skin and the new one underneath before shedding - dry that out and you have problems with adhesion.

Jamie

 

[Vincey]

Your heat mat will not go to waste, so just store it for another reptile! Get some light fittings and vuola!

I suggest NOT doing it if it's too hot to touch, if snakey happens to get underneath the substrate it could do serious harm

 

[mrbaggins]

I spose the big question then is:
Is a 29º hide, a 20º warm side and a 15º cool side hot enough?

 

[Elapidae1]

you really want an area of around 32-35 for a stimmie. If your getting the glass to a temp where you can't touch it then with the use of a thermostat you should be able to maintain these temps inside a hide as long as the surface temp above the mat is reaching these temps the snake will get its warmth from coiling over it. Be mindful though if for some reason it gets hot to the point you can't touch it while your snake is in there it could be nasty. Maybe there is a herp society or something near by that will have a member willing to check out your set up

As Vince has said if your not comfortable try the heat lamp, the mat won't go to waste as you won't be able to stop at one snake

 

[mrbaggins]

Oh, it will get that warm (without heating even) in summer here. But for winter, is it enough?
It's 29.5º inside his hide, 26º on the top of the substrate, and about 20 on the cool side...
(Moving the thermometer around too much earlier and being impatient under-read the temps a bit)