Thoughts on UV Lights?

[adderboy]

...thousands of people keeping animals outdoors where it was once thought impossible.

Factually incorrect. Many people have kept animals outdoors for decades, and I know quite a few of them. If the advancement of knowledge includes misrepresenting what happened in the past, go for it.

 

[5hane]

The way I read all of that, 5hane, it suggests that no one knows yet for sure, even Shane Simpson, and until a definitive diagnosis is available, surely part of the evidence base comprises input from keepers who have experience with the species. Jamie did not put his comments forward as THE answer - he just reported back on other comments he's heard, which may or may not prove to have some basis in fact. Just sharing info; it might not fit your interpretation, but sharing info is the way we learn.

that's right Jamie's comment doesn't suggest he knows the answer, nor do mine. and what you're saying is he was sharing info so we can all learn, as was I. so what's the point in this comment exactly because I'm at a loss. .we're all just stating our opinions.

 

[pythoninfinite]

Thanks for the support Simon ! 5hane, I have never said that DPS (if it exists) could be contagious, this was simply suggested by at least one other, well experienced with Diamond Pythons, member here some years ago, and I threw that in as a possibility, not a probability. I'm only an observer - I don't have anywhere near enough experience with them myself, but I have seen animals in collections that have died from unusual disease patterns, unlike anything one normally sees from bad husbandry practices with either Diamonds or other other Carpets.

I don't know why HiramA biffo has got his (or her) knickers in a twist and is so aggressive/defensive about this, it's only a discussion about possibilities. I may well be wrong, I may well be right, you can't prove it either way, and with the info to hand, neither can I. Nor am I trying to. Haven't got a clue what you're talking about with regard to keeping outdoors, or what info you think is outdated. My first Carpets in WA were kept outdoors for 15 years quite successfully from 1969. I also had experience (and success) with keeping Scrubbies, Coastals, Diamonds and Eastern Water Dragons outdoors in Perth back in the 60s and 70s - animals which were sent to me in exchange for WA species, including Quokkas, for the Australian Reptile Park, by Eric Worrell. I did bring the Scrubs indoors during winter for the five or six years I had them, but all the others were fine outside through the winter. I should point out that there were few constraints on importing eastern states species into WA at that time.

Biffo, if you want to write a book jam-packed with new and contemporary information for reptile keepers, I'd love to be the first with a copy signed by the author... my old way of doing things clearly doesn't cut it anymore.

Jamie

 

[5hane]

Thanks for the support Simon ! 5hane, I have never said that DPS (if it exists) could be contagious, this was simply suggested by at least one other, well experienced with Diamond Pythons, member here some years ago, and I threw that in as a possibility, not a probability. I'm only an observer - I don't have anywhere near enough experience with them myself, but I have seen animals in collections that have died from unusual disease patterns, unlike anything one normally sees from bad husbandry practices with either Diamonds or other other Carpets.



Jamie

yes I see I have misread your comment, I seem to have a habit of that. I guess i'll have to eat my words.

 

[alexbee]

Snakes dont need UV the same way humans dont need alcohol.. snakes seem to like UV

 

[Ryan-James]

.. snakes seem to like UV

Thats what its about but isnt it?
You make a commitment to keep these animals so surely you would want to try to provide some enrichment in their day to day lives, Ive found it will always lead to healthier happy stock, better breeders and less problems etc.
Racks will have a place in any serious breeders snake room and will always be easier to manage larger numbers of stock, BUT if you can provide a uv light cycle and a basking area within the racking system and can afford to, I think you have more to gain whether you are housing hatchies, growing juvies or keeping breeders.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[HiramAbiff]

Factually incorrect. Many people have kept animals outdoors for decades, and I know quite a few of them. If the advancement of knowledge includes misrepresenting what happened in the past, go for it.

I'm not "misrepresenting" anything, I think you may have taken the comment out of context.
30 years ago were there the same number of people successfully keeping and breeding arid species such as shinglebacks in outdoor enclosures in areas that were once thought too humid?

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the support Simon ! 5hane, I have never said that DPS (if it exists) could be contagious, this was simply suggested by at least one other, well experienced with Diamond Pythons, member here some years ago, and I threw that in as a possibility, not a probability. I'm only an observer - I don't have anywhere near enough experience with them myself, but I have seen animals in collections that have died from unusual disease patterns, unlike anything one normally sees from bad husbandry practices with either Diamonds or other other Carpets.

I don't know why HiramA biffo has got his (or her) knickers in a twist and is so aggressive/defensive about this, it's only a discussion about possibilities. I may well be wrong, I may well be right, you can't prove it either way, and with the info to hand, neither can I. Nor am I trying to. Haven't got a clue what you're talking about with regard to keeping outdoors, or what info you think is outdated. My first Carpets in WA were kept outdoors for 15 years quite successfully from 1969. I also had experience (and success) with keeping Scrubbies, Coastals, Diamonds and Eastern Water Dragons outdoors in Perth back in the 60s and 70s - animals which were sent to me in exchange for WA species, including Quokkas, for the Australian Reptile Park, by Eric Worrell. I did bring the Scrubs indoors during winter for the five or six years I had them, but all the others were fine outside through the winter. I should point out that there were few constraints on importing eastern states species into WA at that time.

Biffo, if you want to write a book jam-packed with new and contemporary information for reptile keepers, I'd love to be the first with a copy signed by the author... my old way of doing things clearly doesn't cut it anymore.

Jamie

I'm not getting anything in a knot and I'm not the one who seems to have to go on the attack with the "clever" name combinations regarding my username. Scientific testing through DNA has proved that there is no genetic difference between the Morelia sp. family and they are nothing more than geographical variations of the exact same snake which has evolved it's phenotype to match it's surroundings (Pattern, size, colour)

While it may upset you that I don't want to buy in to the DPS nonsense or the anecdotal evidence produced in an effort to make it so, the above proves that it would be impossible for a pathogen, virus or disease to attack one single geographical variant while magically skipping another variations in the same collection.

Unfortunately experience doesn't equal fact, I rely on up to date information provided by those with a deep understanding of genetics and ecology rather than old wive's tales and gut feelings. Instead of being offended you should try reading some of the new journal articles on the subject from well known scientists.

 

[pinefamily]

[MENTION=41861]HiramAbiff[/MENTION], I am not intruding into your discussion with Pythoninfinite, but can you point me in the direction of the DNA testing results of the morelia species please? For my own edification, I would like to read this.

 

[cement]

Scientific testing through DNA has proved that there is no genetic difference between the Morelia sp. family and they are nothing more than geographical variations of the exact same snake which has evolved it's phenotype to match it's surroundings (Pattern, size, colour)

Please show this proof. I am very interested in this matter, but I am not a cutting edge scientist in the feild of herpetology at the best uni in the world, I am a simple local reptile relocator who deals with hundreds of wild reptiles. This scientific proof ...... it would mean the world to me if I could read it and make my own analysis. Please put this up.

 

[HiramAbiff]

Does google not work on either of your computers?

 

[Wally]

Does google not work on either of your computers?

That old chestnut.........

 

[pinefamily]

I only asked, because I have never seen any conclusive scientific DNA results which show what you have described. I have used Google on several occasions, even Google Scholar.

 

[HiramAbiff]

Sorry, when did I become your personal assistant?
I'll make it even easier for you guys, google "Morelia DNA markers", then read the papers contained within.

Want me to whip around and give your enclosures a scrub too? Laziness at it's finest, instead of doing research I'll sit and argue the issue even though I'm wrong.....

 

[pinefamily]

"During this study, genes (ND6 and cytochrome b) within the mitochondrial DNA from the carpet python, Morelia spilota, is investigated to see if these could function as a species identification test. Furthermore, phylogenetic relationships based on these genes between and within this snake species is investigated and compared to the taxonomy which is based on morphology. ND6 and cytochrome b both showed a lot of intraspecies variation within the subspecies of the carpet python. The variation between two samples in ND6 is between 1.07% and 6.09%. In cytochrome b this was between 0.72% and 6.82%. In this last gene there was less variation between the samples from the east coast, but more variation between those samples and samples from the rest of Australia. Both genes produced similar trees and could be used for species identification of the carpet python. Although the samples from the east coast are very similar to each other, all other species group separately. These results compared to the taxonomy and unpublished research which assumed there are only two of three subspecies instead of six, it seems like the Morelia spilota can be divided into four subspecies; east coast of Australia, north Australia (Morelia spilota variegata), central Australia (Morelia spilota bredli) and west-south Australia (Morelia spilota imbricata)."

Not exactly proof, my grumpy friend.

 

[twistedFrog]

May I point us all back to the reason for this post, the question asked and not the somehow intangible derivatives of this. IMO I would like to hear everyones opinion, based upon fact, experience or both on the actual question? [MENTION=41977]Hender135[/MENTION] what do you propose to house in the rack? IMO from my experience and from reading a lot on this topic, UV lights will not harm a python, provided they are suitably caged to avoid a python touching them. I am yet though to fully understand what benefit, if any, UV lights has to the health of the animal being housed. I continue the journey as you do to find the facts and evidence and IMO probably the reason you started this thread, the search for any and all information you can find to make an informed decision.
This is not an attempt to prove anyone's opinion wrong or otherwise, just my opinion, to add to all the information on this topic gathered by the OP.

 

[pinefamily]

Thank you for that, Twisted Frog. Yes, the thread was drifting....

 

[Wally]

Sorry, when did I become your personal assistant?

Not even if I was bed ridden.

Where did the courtesy of referencing ones argument go?

 

[pinefamily]

Back on the topic of UV lights, while it seems they are not necessary, they are probably not going to hurt either. This seems to be the gist of the thread so far.
What I would like to add is how the UV lights affect the colour of pythons. In our experience, we have seen both UV and ordinary white heat globes bring out the colours in our pythons. I'd be interested to hear others' experiences on this.

 

[HiramAbiff]

Not even if I was bed ridden.

Where did the courtesy of referencing ones argument go?

I don't have an argument, merely made a statement that the evidence or lack thereof which was speculated about in this thread is incorrect.
If people can't be bothered to read the information freely available to them using their own time and effort I'm not going to do it for them, you're free to believe whatever your heart desires.

 

[Wally]

If people can't be bothered to read the information freely available to them using their own time and effort I'm not going to do it for them, you're free to believe whatever your heart desires.

Perhaps some of that time you spend on here objecting to others opinions and or observations could be better spent constructing your argument with the relevant references to back them up.