touchy subject trophies
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elapid@
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yeah those that hunt to eat or pest control, yeah to me that's way of life, but i wont and never will agree with killing for pride or show.
yes this is a touchy subject.
some people get very defensive about there guns lol
yes this is a touchy subject.
some people get very defensive about there guns lol
So you do not respect doctors , lawyers ,teachers, ministers that I personally know hunt let alone royalty a world motor bike champ and countless other sports stars that hunt..
I have no respect for the ignorant ..
Sleazy.P.Martini
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I think a lot of "people" probably just lost respect for you too. I'm a voter, a father, a soldier, a herper and a hunter. I'm no less a "person" than you because of the last one...
elapid@
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Food for thought,in Africa there a game parks that breed animals like cheetahs for the sole purpose of being shot for sport.i find the idea disturbing but the argument is that its no different to tracking down and killing any other animal.the animals are captive bred so there is no chance of being released into the wild as they will only be shot by farmers.[/QUOTE]
yeah that makes my blood boil
yeah that makes my blood boil
as a person who has hunted feral animals for over 30 years, i love it, but i agree there is no need to drive down the road with fresh kill hangin off your car, thats stupid. but have you guys seen the damage pigs cause, or any amount of native wildlife we loose to cats foxes and wild dogs, just to name a few. controlled kulling is an important part to sustain our wildlife. in the snowy mountains i traped over 100 feral cats in 1 year, some as big as small dogs, and as savage as a rockwieler. Just emagine what wildlife they had eaten. for sport i shoot clay pigeons,:evil: am i a bad person
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Radar
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I believe we are smart enough to have alternative ways to deal with threats to our natural environment as well, I'll give you that. I also believe, as a race, we are smart enough to make good use of sustainable energy sources, smart enough to deal with poverty in first world countries if not every country, smart enough to provide free education at all levels so people with brains can become what they want, regardless of financial background and generally smart enough to be nice to strangers. But none of those other things have happened and probably won't.
People do get touchy about their guns, you're certainly right. But the same as people get touchy about their reptiles - very similar actually. People that legally keep reptiles, you and me, are often represented as criminals, and associated with drugs and illegal weapons busts. We're looked at by large parts of the community as weirdos. Some reptiles have the potential to kill - very quickly, but in all reality if kept properly and appropriate safety measures taken, it should all be safe. Accidents do happen though. Imagine herpers reactions if all of a sudden more restrictions were imposed because a few idiots did the wrong thing and then we couldn't keep reptiles anymore? If you're a law abiding firearms owner you're in the same boat. You obey all the laws, lots of them, you fork out huge amounts of money to have the privilege (as it is no longer a right in Australia to own a gun...), you cop all the rubbish from people that have no idea about your hobby because having guns makes you a bad person, and you practice safety measures like the herpkeeping world has never seen. Yet someone with ILLEGALLY OWNED firearms goes and shoots up a Bikie residence and the answer is taking the legal firearms off the people that are doing the right thing? The thing about laws is they are only there for people who choose to obey them, just like stop signs on the road. You can either stop, or not, it's up to you. This was not a rant, just food for thought. You'd be fairly surprised how many people you know probably own guns, but don't mention it because of the stigma attached to it. It's generally not something you mention to new friends unless you meet them at the range.
People do get touchy about their guns, you're certainly right. But the same as people get touchy about their reptiles - very similar actually. People that legally keep reptiles, you and me, are often represented as criminals, and associated with drugs and illegal weapons busts. We're looked at by large parts of the community as weirdos. Some reptiles have the potential to kill - very quickly, but in all reality if kept properly and appropriate safety measures taken, it should all be safe. Accidents do happen though. Imagine herpers reactions if all of a sudden more restrictions were imposed because a few idiots did the wrong thing and then we couldn't keep reptiles anymore? If you're a law abiding firearms owner you're in the same boat. You obey all the laws, lots of them, you fork out huge amounts of money to have the privilege (as it is no longer a right in Australia to own a gun...), you cop all the rubbish from people that have no idea about your hobby because having guns makes you a bad person, and you practice safety measures like the herpkeeping world has never seen. Yet someone with ILLEGALLY OWNED firearms goes and shoots up a Bikie residence and the answer is taking the legal firearms off the people that are doing the right thing? The thing about laws is they are only there for people who choose to obey them, just like stop signs on the road. You can either stop, or not, it's up to you. This was not a rant, just food for thought. You'd be fairly surprised how many people you know probably own guns, but don't mention it because of the stigma attached to it. It's generally not something you mention to new friends unless you meet them at the range.
Flaviruthless
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Why? It provides a stable income and food for many people as well as encouraging the management of animals. In the case of the Sable antelope it may well have saved the species. I don't understand why people would want to kill a beautiful native animal in its environment but to me paying for it and supporting the community to do so is a lot better than poaching.
elapid@
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I no every thing sounds great and easy in a perfect world and its never going to be perfect, cause we are the ones to blame for that . our instinct to survive is what has driven this world to become what it is. money ,greed and lies. on the other hand I still enjoy a nice rump steak lol
thomasssss
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ive never seen a rabbit typing on a computer , driving a car or doing mathematics so i kinda think im a little more intelligent than them
we do have other ways of dealing with pests one of them is poison baits but the problem with that it we dont know whats eating them in the end , so shooting an animal that you can id as a pest and not a native is alot better than baiting especially when its a reasonably good shot
oi_itz_blake96 , how is fishing any different apart from the equipment used and the game targeted , the fish is jagged in the mouth with a hook and then forced towards the boat or the shore line whilst it struggles against it thrashing its head from side to side trying to throw the hook from its mouth , then its taken out of the water where it cant breathe (or what ever goes on there im no scientist) and is left to suffocate to death or released in some cases , talk about barbaric even if you do practice catch and release
i should add i have no problem with fishing at all , my dad was a commercial fisherman for years and ive done my fair share of fishing over the years myself but in a way it is a kind of hunting , if you look hunting up in the dictionary it doesn't say its excluded to just guns and bows it is "the activity of hunting wild animals or game for food or sport " , what do they call it when they go marlin fishing , oh yea thats right big game fishing
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TO ALL THE PEOPLE THAT SAY WE ARE SMARTER AND THERE IS A BETTER WAY to deal with feral..... IF there is, its NOT working and not much else is being done (we HUNTERS ARE doing something more than just sitting back and being keyboard warriors. WE are being pro active 95% of you would eat meat but wouldnt have the stones to do what needs to be done to make that steak magic onto your plate... so i suggest you muzzel yourself and let the people with a real understanding of LIFE do what they do...
Daryl
Daryl
jairusthevirus21
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The "Drawing the line" comment just got me thinking... where is the line then..? Il think il take up Whaling tomorrow! Apparently they are tasty lol. ha ha ha
crocodile_dan
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Flaviruthless, it gets me annoyed when game ranches undertake these actions and then claim they are conserving species when they do nothing of true value towards conserving a species in it's natural habitat. I'm not saying they have no value but they are trying to cherry coat things. Fair enough some do contribute but the majority hide behind the veil of conservation. Also not all ranchers give as much back to the community, sometimes it is solely an economic industry.
The case of Sable antelope, yes they were successfully repopulated via captive breeding programs, and those people deserve recognition for that. But now any ranch that has Sables jumps on the band wagon about how they are saving them when they had no contribution to their success and still contribute nothing towards conservation apart from boosting the captive population. With any captive population there is genetic depression over time, Ranchers are also selectively breeding for trophies (largest horns etc) this artificial selective pressure has a negative influence on the possibility of any valuable conservation efforts out of the captive stock.
Stepping away from the ranch side of the debate and to the practice of trophy hunting wildlife that many people don't acknowledge:
The hunting of certain species is never as simple as taking one individual out of a population. My two examples are elephants and lions but there are more. Trophy hunters shoot the big impressive animals which includes the elephant matriarch and the pride male lion, in each case it has a devastating flow on effect. Studies have shown that removing the matriarch from a herd reduces the survivorship of the herd members as all the knowledge used to guide the herd is held by the matriarch, also there were many incidents of young elephants who witnessed the death of a mother growing up with 'psychotic' tendencies such as attacking people and animals and raping other species. When a pride male lion is killed the whole pride is thrown into disarray, once a nomad male or bachelor group take over the pride the cubs are killed along with any subadults that don't flee and even if they manage to leave they do not possess the necessary survival skills, by killing one male there is the potential to wipe out several generations of genetics.
Also by legalizing the trade in some wildlife products it gives an avenue for black market trade, just look at the elephant ivory scenario. So some legal practices give avenues for illegal poaching to occur.
That is my personal answer to your question of why, and none of what I said was directed at you or your views, just my answers. Despite what's said above I still maintain hunting is not a bad thing in itself, apart from hunting big cats and elephants.
The case of Sable antelope, yes they were successfully repopulated via captive breeding programs, and those people deserve recognition for that. But now any ranch that has Sables jumps on the band wagon about how they are saving them when they had no contribution to their success and still contribute nothing towards conservation apart from boosting the captive population. With any captive population there is genetic depression over time, Ranchers are also selectively breeding for trophies (largest horns etc) this artificial selective pressure has a negative influence on the possibility of any valuable conservation efforts out of the captive stock.
Stepping away from the ranch side of the debate and to the practice of trophy hunting wildlife that many people don't acknowledge:
The hunting of certain species is never as simple as taking one individual out of a population. My two examples are elephants and lions but there are more. Trophy hunters shoot the big impressive animals which includes the elephant matriarch and the pride male lion, in each case it has a devastating flow on effect. Studies have shown that removing the matriarch from a herd reduces the survivorship of the herd members as all the knowledge used to guide the herd is held by the matriarch, also there were many incidents of young elephants who witnessed the death of a mother growing up with 'psychotic' tendencies such as attacking people and animals and raping other species. When a pride male lion is killed the whole pride is thrown into disarray, once a nomad male or bachelor group take over the pride the cubs are killed along with any subadults that don't flee and even if they manage to leave they do not possess the necessary survival skills, by killing one male there is the potential to wipe out several generations of genetics.
Also by legalizing the trade in some wildlife products it gives an avenue for black market trade, just look at the elephant ivory scenario. So some legal practices give avenues for illegal poaching to occur.
That is my personal answer to your question of why, and none of what I said was directed at you or your views, just my answers. Despite what's said above I still maintain hunting is not a bad thing in itself, apart from hunting big cats and elephants.
james.5
Active Member
I am all for hunting if done for the right reasons and the animals are killed quickly and as humanely.
I think the idea of killing an animal because it is feral is wrong. 1 dead animal wont change anything. I guess if you and a bunch of mates organise a shoot and spend a few days blitzing it then that's good. 1 dead rabbit is no different to 1 dead kangaroo to me. I love Australian wildlife and absolutely hate to see ferals take over, but killing a few ferals does nothing on the war against them.
I think the idea of killing an animal because it is feral is wrong. 1 dead animal wont change anything. I guess if you and a bunch of mates organise a shoot and spend a few days blitzing it then that's good. 1 dead rabbit is no different to 1 dead kangaroo to me. I love Australian wildlife and absolutely hate to see ferals take over, but killing a few ferals does nothing on the war against them.
mungus
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I trophy Hunt & Fish therefore I'm a blood thirsty killer....................
Get real and get a life !
Ahhhh feel better know !
Get real and get a life !
Ahhhh feel better know !
Sinners121
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first of all i enjoy hunting. There is a feeling that is very hard to explain unless you try it. Secondly dont knock it till you try or at least get out there and see whats happening. there is a few different things being said in this thread so here goes.
first of all there are many methods for controlling feral animals other than hunting trapping, posions and even sterilisation's. First of all sterilisations are a terrible idea they are often jumped on by the anti-hunting brigade, but at the end of the day they are more expensive, more time consuming and the animal if left alive to continue destruction on our native wildlife. Also there is no promise that the animal trapped and sterilised is the alpha of the area. Posions are only effective if done in the right doses and trapping needs to be checked twice a day to be human. So at the end of the day it is easier for a farmer to allow shooters come on to his/her's property and kill the foxes that are stealing his lambs and the rabbits that are causing his horses to break legs.
Another point is one that i find interesting from herpers, as has been said hunters are getting judged for the minority that do the wrong thing like the people that keep reptiles illegally.
next back to the main point of this thread trophies. i do not believe there is anything wrong with them. if someone shoots a nice stag or or a buff then whats the problem with keeping a head to commemorate the memory? moving on i also keep all my skins and meat unless not possible.
onto african safari's. yes many of these animals are being breed to be hunted however the are they are being hunted has been returned to its natural environment, whilst all the native animals have been put back in to the area instead of cropland and these farmers are getting a living for it. yes they may be native but what is the problem aslong as the animals are not reducing in numbers due to the hunting? america allows it actually most countries allow it but australia.
as for the sable in america i believe originally there were only 120 they where given to ranchers so that they could breed and then sell them for hunting to make it worth keeping the animals alive. this worked amazingly and many have been sent back to there native habitat. if you look carefully as well you will see that due to ms.Feral i believe her name was successfully introducing laws im not sure if they finally went ahead however in the uncertainty the ranchers where selling entire herds to hunters and shooting them themselves as if they cannot produce money then it become unviable for them to keep them on there property.
as for drawing the line in 99.9% of the casses whats is the problem with hunting an animal ethically as long as its species is not under threat?
lastly to those that i have resorted to saying that people are dumber for hunting, if you really think that you will probably not bothered to see the reasoning in my post, however if you have i look forward to hearing an intelligent reply and not a mudslinging match.
first of all there are many methods for controlling feral animals other than hunting trapping, posions and even sterilisation's. First of all sterilisations are a terrible idea they are often jumped on by the anti-hunting brigade, but at the end of the day they are more expensive, more time consuming and the animal if left alive to continue destruction on our native wildlife. Also there is no promise that the animal trapped and sterilised is the alpha of the area. Posions are only effective if done in the right doses and trapping needs to be checked twice a day to be human. So at the end of the day it is easier for a farmer to allow shooters come on to his/her's property and kill the foxes that are stealing his lambs and the rabbits that are causing his horses to break legs.
Another point is one that i find interesting from herpers, as has been said hunters are getting judged for the minority that do the wrong thing like the people that keep reptiles illegally.
next back to the main point of this thread trophies. i do not believe there is anything wrong with them. if someone shoots a nice stag or or a buff then whats the problem with keeping a head to commemorate the memory? moving on i also keep all my skins and meat unless not possible.
onto african safari's. yes many of these animals are being breed to be hunted however the are they are being hunted has been returned to its natural environment, whilst all the native animals have been put back in to the area instead of cropland and these farmers are getting a living for it. yes they may be native but what is the problem aslong as the animals are not reducing in numbers due to the hunting? america allows it actually most countries allow it but australia.
as for the sable in america i believe originally there were only 120 they where given to ranchers so that they could breed and then sell them for hunting to make it worth keeping the animals alive. this worked amazingly and many have been sent back to there native habitat. if you look carefully as well you will see that due to ms.Feral i believe her name was successfully introducing laws im not sure if they finally went ahead however in the uncertainty the ranchers where selling entire herds to hunters and shooting them themselves as if they cannot produce money then it become unviable for them to keep them on there property.
as for drawing the line in 99.9% of the casses whats is the problem with hunting an animal ethically as long as its species is not under threat?
lastly to those that i have resorted to saying that people are dumber for hunting, if you really think that you will probably not bothered to see the reasoning in my post, however if you have i look forward to hearing an intelligent reply and not a mudslinging match.
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jairusthevirus21
Active Member
Dangerous animals?.... wat like snakes??? lol Gotta watch out for those man-eating bunnies too. Like in MoNTY Python's Holy Grail. ha ha
badass!!!
lol
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Sinners121
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crocodile_dan
there are some truths and some not so truths.
the ranchers are often not actually breeding themselves but letting the animals do the work as they usually have other things do attend to.
Hunters do not actually hunt matriarchs they want trophies. This means old bulls with large amounts of ivory on them. usually when matriarchs are shot by cullers they shoot the entire herd. you are right about the studies however they are not relevant to most hunters and are such very misguiding.
also elephants are now over populated and due to them being used as the token conservation animals it is impossible for farmers to try and keep their populations in check, which means there are not many old trees in overpopulated areas.
as for lions places that allow hunting are conserving there populations for the future. and back to my original point if they are paying for trophy's they want the best and biggest for an animal to become the best and biggest it takes time and during that time it will sire many many cubs, which will eventually overthrow the alpha.
the ilegal trade of wildlife products was happening without the legal avenue opening with it opening at least many game parks are being able to pay for the culling and the running of the parks.
there are some truths and some not so truths.
the ranchers are often not actually breeding themselves but letting the animals do the work as they usually have other things do attend to.
Hunters do not actually hunt matriarchs they want trophies. This means old bulls with large amounts of ivory on them. usually when matriarchs are shot by cullers they shoot the entire herd. you are right about the studies however they are not relevant to most hunters and are such very misguiding.
also elephants are now over populated and due to them being used as the token conservation animals it is impossible for farmers to try and keep their populations in check, which means there are not many old trees in overpopulated areas.
as for lions places that allow hunting are conserving there populations for the future. and back to my original point if they are paying for trophy's they want the best and biggest for an animal to become the best and biggest it takes time and during that time it will sire many many cubs, which will eventually overthrow the alpha.
the ilegal trade of wildlife products was happening without the legal avenue opening with it opening at least many game parks are being able to pay for the culling and the running of the parks.
Ricochet
Active Member
I hope all the knockers of hunting are vegitarians - if not they are just getting someone to do the dirty work for them. Believe it or not meat does not grow on safeways tray inside the cling wrap - it comes from animals. These animals are bred for meat, prodding it onto a cattle truck with an electric prod, transport it to the abatoirs where it gets offloaded into pens where it can smell the blood of other animals and listen to them being slaughtered and then gets a bolt into the side of the head which hopefully kills them. and ever been to where the chickens get prepped up.........
I'm a hunter and have been all my life. I hunt deer for meat, thrill of the hunt and if lucky enough - a trophy. All the deer I have taken have been dispatched very quickly. I also hunt other introduced species and some legal natives. Look at the problems the animal libbers have caused when they put pressure on the fur trade - all those poor little foxes getting shot to make fur coats - naughty hunters. Now they are the first to sook when the foxes are destroying our natives, so they scream for poisoning programs which results in a slow agonising death (and not just the target species) and the waste of a fine pelt as it rots into the ground. There was even talk of the victorian gov aerial bating for deer.
Most hunters are conservationists, doing more for protecting the species they hunt to ensure continued legitimate hunting resources.
I'm a hunter and have been all my life. I hunt deer for meat, thrill of the hunt and if lucky enough - a trophy. All the deer I have taken have been dispatched very quickly. I also hunt other introduced species and some legal natives. Look at the problems the animal libbers have caused when they put pressure on the fur trade - all those poor little foxes getting shot to make fur coats - naughty hunters. Now they are the first to sook when the foxes are destroying our natives, so they scream for poisoning programs which results in a slow agonising death (and not just the target species) and the waste of a fine pelt as it rots into the ground. There was even talk of the victorian gov aerial bating for deer.
Most hunters are conservationists, doing more for protecting the species they hunt to ensure continued legitimate hunting resources.
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