vet trip for the deccw

[Daz_McC]

I went to melbourne zoo last year and they said they had no trouble breeding them and infact werent breeding them the comming season as there is no where for the babies to go?

Why is Melbourne zoo breeding them? I would have thought Taronga would be the obvious place to have a captive breeding program.

 

[jack]

i think you may have been misinformed WTBuy. melbourne zoo have bred them a few times, but they are in no way successful. they are having stillbirth issues and are also losing around 50% of juvies in the first year or so, there is a fairly recent herpetofauna article on this.
i was there two weeks ago and they have one individual on display at the moment, right next to an informative sign that suggests that they are attempting to breed to distribute to other zoological institutions. taronga zoo have a lovely broad head display enclosure in the reptile section, but i have been told by a reliable source it is empty!.
with a bit of luck taronga can get some, hopefully not donated by the DECCW after a confiscation from private keepers!

 

[tsbjd]

Hi Jack,

Any problems as yet? What is the legal side of refusing to tag / take bloods due to welfare of the snake? Does the DECCW offer a guarantee on the health of the snakes after vet throwaround? I agree with what they are trying to achieve, but it is a risk versus reward situation - why take these sort of risks with an endangered Reptile?

Cheers

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I agree with what they are trying to achieve

What is that exactly?

J

 

[tsbjd]

I was told they were getting it to repopulate if needed, however im starting to have my doubts now.

 

[jack]

Hi Jack,

Any problems as yet? What is the legal side of refusing to tag / take bloods due to welfare of the snake? Does the DECCW offer a guarantee on the health of the snakes after vet throwaround? I agree with what they are trying to achieve, but it is a risk versus reward situation - why take these sort of risks with an endangered Reptile?

Cheers

i suspect deccw either monitor, or have information posted on this site forwarded to them as one deccw employee spoke of having seen the photo's on this very thread.
I will therefore be as objective as possible in my comments, and hope that any other posters do likewise.
I will also only disclose the first initial of people involved in this.

I have kept all correspondence between myself and the deccw, and have taken notes during all but one phone conversation described.

A letter signed by B2, handed to me in person by B1, asked for my assistance in the recovery project by allowing my animals to be tagged, and scales taken for DNA analysis.

I phoned B2 and was told politely that refusal to comply, would mean "statutory powers" would be used to take the animals and perform the procedure if a keeper refused. He was dismissive toward my concerns.

The procedure was carried out by a vet. I sighted the instructions given to the vet, signed by B2, that asked for a blood sample to be taken from the animals. No mention had been made in the letter of demand nor phone calls.

two snakes became unwell. one died.

B2 was called, and I was informed that this individual was not in charge of the project, but those that were would be notified.

I organised an autopsy by a highly qualified vet.

M1 called me to ask for the animal for autopsy, i informed them this had been organised already.

M2 called having been informed by their superior M1 of the situation. An offer was made to pay for the autopsy, as the deccw were "eager" to know what had killed the animal ("the aim is to protect not kill protected species"). M2 was the head of the broad head recovery project at deccw. M2 sent two emails to me seeking information and again offering to pay for the autopsy.

although it took some time, the animal was determined to have died from a bacterial infection, the species of bacteria was one that would be expected to be found on the scales. it cannot be conclusively determined but the vet has stated it is likely the bacteria entered the animal during the procedure.

i called M2, who informed me they were now working on another project, and two other individuals would now be running the broad head recovery project. An email later informed me that i should direct further correspondence to M1.

as you can imagine, i am a little peeved that the deccw seem to be responsible for the death of my pet.

in regards to what they are trying to achieve, M2 has informed me that the dna will be used to determine "parentage" of captive animals.

there is contradiction in exact number, but two of the above deccw employees have informed me there are less than 15 animals in captivity, and there are 4 or less keepers, they agree that three animals remain to be tagged and sampled.

i could go on a bit more, but this is the gist of it all... sorry for the cloak and dagger stuff, but some of these people seem like decent sorts and don't need vilification.

 

[Sock Puppet]

Jack, do you know if any of the other keeper's animals already tagged have deteriorated or died?

I wonder what the conclusion would have been if DECCW had performed the necropsy themselves (via their vet). Did the vet clean the surface area where the tag was inserted prior to the procedure being performed?

 

[jack]

unwilling to comment on other keepers animals.

the animal was not swabbed with alcohol at the site of scute clipping, which is the suspected site of pathogen entry, nor at the site of the two penetrations for blood sampling.
the animals were not given follow up antibiotics as a precaution against infection.
i have suggested to the authorities that these precautions should be taken in the future.

 

[Waterrat]

Jack, that makes my hair stand up.
There are currently 2 court cases in preparation against wildlife authorities (not in NSW) and please don't ask for details. You should start counting your losses, both material and emotional and seeking a barrister. None of the silly magistrate court nonsense, supreme court is the place to deal with THEM.

 

[jack]

even the most skilled barrister could not return my pretty little girl

 

[cris]

even the most skilled barrister could not return my pretty little girl

That just means you should sue them for over $100 million, espcially considering they killed an endangered species for no reason. It would be pretty hard to find enough money to get things going though. Still it would be nice if more people stood up to stupid beurocracy when it has a negative impact on their lives. Although we have a really stupid system, in some cases it worth considering using it as its often the only way progress is made. it would certainly achieve more than just chopping up the people responsible :lol:

 

[Sock Puppet]

unwilling to comment on other keepers animals.

the animal was not swabbed with alcohol at the site of scute clipping, which is the suspected site of pathogen entry, nor at the site of the two penetrations for blood sampling.
the animals were not given follow up antibiotics as a precaution against infection.
i have suggested to the authorities that these precautions should be taken in the future.

Fair enough, I can understand your diplomacy with this.
That's poor form from a vet to overlook simple precautions like that.

 

[euphorion]

I can't believe the vet didn't clean the sites before performing the blood-taking, chipping and scale clipping! That's just malpractice in my opinion!

I'm so so sorry to hear of your loss, that's absolutely horrible. I sincerely hope you are able to persue this, it's just not on!

 

[tsbjd]

In reply to something written above - and although i know this is going to plague me in the future - there are at least two other animals that I personally know of that are stressing, and are still off their food (I will not name names, if they want to post here they will). They are not mine. From the reports, talking to other keepers and photos i think that is in the best intrests of my reptiles not to attend the vets.

 

[cris]

Just to make it clear im not suggesting you sue the vet, but rather the idiots who made you go through this completely useless risk. It would be very easy just to take photos and require instant photo records of any breeding rather than go through heaps of stuff which would all have contributed to the snakes death.

 

[jack]

i think that is in the best intrests of my reptiles not to attend the vets.

i think you just publicly outed yourself as the last legal keeper to hold unmolested broadies in this state!