WA is asking for your help!!!!!!!!!

[stencorp69]

I am going to compile a letter later today. Apart from the obvious, I am also going to strongly point out the person who has been personally blocking any progress in the right direction because of his personal agenda. This individual is not liked by many of his colleagues within the Department and is totally unfit to hold a position where he is capable of embarrassing the Department. I feel that it's a good strategy to clearly point out this source of many problems, if nothing else, it may cause bit of a rift within the circles if it filters though the ranks. The Ministers should know who this inept person is and act on it.

WR I don't think it's a fact lost on the Minister or his counterpart in opposition, but I'm not sure that will help. I found Gordon Wyre and David Mell to be positive in the meetings WAHS has had with them and regardless of the third party you infer to, there has been little desire to expand the list. At no stage during the meetings was conservation bought up as an issue for not expanding the list and in our last meeting non compliance was not even mentioned as a preclusion to the list being expanded. Taking Gordon on his word it came down to resources - ie money, if that is the case its important to let the minister know that expanding the list is a priority. Not with standing Jamie's argument on sending letters each day, it is important that we get many people to regularly email issues with the system and expanded list.

 

[Waterrat]

Stencorp, I see your point but from an outsider's point of view, if these guys are so sweet, then why is nothing happening. They may mean well but if there is no desirable outcome then their "positive attitude" is not worth a pinch of .... How can an expansion of species on the "keep list" cost money? Do they have to do anything more than type more names on the list? The list is not a Legislation, as I understand it, so what's the big deal.
My personal approach would be not to just ask for expanded list but to get WA DEC fall in line with other states where we can keep pretty well everything that's listed as "already in captivity". That, to me should be the major objective.

 

[Sinners121]

i can see how it would cost more money due to people in W.A having to send a care sheet annualy on each species we own. though this could be very simply solved with online updates or other methods.

 

[Snowman]

Thanks for putting the time into your letter WR. I agree the objective needs to be to fall inline with the other states. WAHS is aiming for the WA natives that are kept in captivity across Australia as one of it's first goals.
Whilst things have been reported as positive in the meetings. They certainly are not short of stalling tactics. They asked for an initial 6 species to assess for suitability. But you have to wonder what is there to assess when the rest of Australia is keeping the animals we asked for in captivity already? Another ploy to indicate that it costs money to add animals to the list.

 

[stencorp69]

Stencorp, I see your point but from an outsider's point of view, if these guys are so sweet, then why is nothing happening. They may mean well but if there is no desirable outcome then their "positive attitude" is not worth a pinch of .... How can an expansion of species on the "keep list" cost money? Do they have to do anything more than type more names on the list? The list is not a Legislation, as I understand it, so what's the big deal.
My personal approach would be not to just ask for expanded list but to get WA DEC fall in line with other states where we can keep pretty well everything that's listed as "already in captivity". That, to me should be the major objective.

Yes I'm as
astounded as you are WR - but living over in QLD - you have more rights in WA than we do! Our local reptile displays can't display Crocodiles at their shows but if you are a mobile display travelling from interstate to WA to Perth you are able to get a permit. True story!! The Minister wrote to back to a complaint saying DEC didn't think crocodiles were appropriate for mobile displays and so won't allow them to go on reg 16 display licenses, yet at the time DEC permitted an interstate display to display crocs a the Perth Show.

 

[stimmygirl]

awesome cause

Letter sent

 

[Squamata]

Letter sent!!

Right there with you snowman, it is so frustrating that our species (particularly pythons) are allowed to be kept in the East but not here. I am constantly requesting a pygmy python for my
educational shows but am blocked all the time, with stupid irrational arguments that they don't come from Perth, well neither do Womas or Blackheadeds but we are allowed to keep them!!! grrrrrr!!!
Same as our Roughies and many of our beautiful lizards.
What will it take for them to realise that we are seriously losing the battle against the Cane toad and let us keep some of the species affected and will be affected, so our future children may at least know what a Mertens
water Monitor is etc etc.
Sorry rattling off on another tangent, but we need to do something about our list and if writing letters to the ministers help, then so be it.
I will be glad to send one everyday.
Keep up the good work Snowman.
Karen

 

[AusReptiles88]

Letter Sent

 

[Snowman]

Thanks for the kind words Karen. But I'm merely sitting on the edge of the work that is being undertaken mainly by Stephen and Mike on behalf of WAHS.
It's best to send a reply for reply in regards to letters to the minister.
Don't give up on your pygmy python either. Perhaps even request a meeting with the minister to raise your concerns with the departments treatment of your application. Find out who has pygmys in WA and then ask why you are being disecriminated against. It may be worth all reg 16's getting together to address the issue. I know Ranger Red is pretty active in this area. The more angles that we attack this from the better chance we have of getting a result.

 

[Waterrat]

Also, involve your Member of Parliament. Politicians can have a huge influence and from I hear, your PM is very receptive to your/our concerns. The more pressure from all angles, the better, just don't let it die off.

 

[Firedrake]

Oh oh oh I got the jitters, I got an actual 'read receipt' from my letter as my email asks for one when you click my emails

 

[zulu]

Whats the use of adding more species to a system that is currently derrelect ? If DECC managed the present system and stopped wild collecting after a few hundred specimens for captive breeding had been taken ,well fair enough.
You know,you get a little captive population of WA womas,bhps,stimsons,then move onto another species to be collected.
What has been taking place though is the continued taking of wild snakes to devalue those already in WA and those outside.
Government sponsored taking when its run by beaurocrats is dangerous,because they dont know and dont really care. Cheers

 

[Firedrake]

And that's because the DEC won't allow more than one clutch to be bred and sold for a normal license holder, the extra ones must be 'given' away to a dealer. Also as the eastern states have their own breeders who are allowed to sell as many as they like, there is almost no call for export unless its something nobody has.

The DEC are encouraging wild taking because they make a royalty on it, as Snowman said earlier, the WAHS asked for the reduction of W/C and more C/B but the DEC declined and basically said they would rather keep taking from the wild...

 

[zulu]

And that's because the DEC won't allow more than one clutch to be bred and sold for a normal license holder, the extra ones must be 'given' away to a dealer. Also as the eastern states have their own breeders who are allowed to sell as many as they like, there is almost no call for export unless its something nobody has.

You poor buggers LOL Your asking your old uncle zulu to give an axe to a crazed murderer.
I dont know what you guys can do really beside immigrate to the east

 

[stencorp69]

Whats the use of adding more species to a system that is currently derrelect ? If DECC managed the present system and stopped wild collecting after a few hundred specimens for captive breeding had been taken ,well fair enough.

Not sure the argument make much sense? There are very few animals being collected of the licensed species currently.

You know,you get a little captive population of WA womas,bhps,stimsons,then move onto another species to be collected. What has been taking place though is the continued taking of wild snakes to devalue those already in WA and those outside.

I'm not oppossed to that opinion, but others have said it is self regulating anyway given the current numbers being collected. As for devalue I'm not sure that is correct as it costs us in WA more for locally sourced stimis than it does you in the eastern states.

Government sponsored taking when its run by beaurocrats is dangerous,because they dont know and dont really care. Cheers

How so? The numbers of animals being taken are very small and while it may have some locallised impact there is no impact over all.

...I dont know what you guys can do really beside immigrate to the east

nail on the head if only it was that easy

 

[Snowman]

Whats the use of adding more species to a system that is currently derrelect ? If DECC managed the present system and stopped wild collecting after a few hundred specimens for captive breeding had been taken ,well fair enough.
You know,you get a little captive population of WA womas,bhps,stimsons,then move onto another species to be collected.
What has been taking place though is the continued taking of wild snakes to devalue those already in WA and those outside.
Government sponsored taking when its run by beaurocrats is dangerous,because they dont know and dont really care. Cheers

I'm not sure if you have had much experience over here Zulu, but we have found wild taking to be self limiting. The simple facts are that most people don't want a wild caught animal. You don't know how old it is, what parisites and diseases it's been exposed to, they often carry battle scares or scratches from living in the wild. I know of one breeder who has more luck with young male SWCP than older ones, so again even for breeding captive can be the more attractive option. Most people here are chasing hatchies (captive bred) that they raise themselves. If there was a nice looking WC woma or something I'd consider buying it, but usually it's not my first preference. Because of this the demand for wild taking drops off once captive populations have increased in number. You can get a hatchy wheatbelt stimi for $250 or a wild caught one for $700. What do you think most people do?
There aren't many takers licenses in WA. That said, it's sad that DEC don't promote captive breeding over wild taking. The restrictions placed on captive breeding really makes you wonder if they place any value in conservation at all.
Other than pythons everything else can be imported from captive populations. Which would mean little or no wild taking. There's a handful of other WA native pythons we would like to see added. Most of which occur in captive collections for exhibition purposes already.

 

[zulu]

Not sure the argument make much sense? There are very few animals being collected of the licensed species currently.

Thats because supply and demand have been exhausted,taking should have been stopped by DECC years ago.

I'm not oppossed to that opinion, but others have said it is self regulating anyway given the current numbers being collected. As for devalue I'm not sure that is correct as it costs us in WA more for locally sourced stimis than it does you in the eastern states.

You have to buy what youve got,we have all we breed and quite a few of yours,probably why they are at give away prices here,in fact it is LOL

How so? The numbers of animals being taken are very small and while it may have some locallised impact there is no impact over all.

Why just keep taking,breed what you get in the first place.

 

[winny111]

email sent

 

[zulu]

I'm not sure if you have had much experience over here Zulu, but we have found wild taking to be self limiting. The simple facts are that most people don't want a wild caught animal. You don't know how old it is, what parisites and diseases it's been exposed to, they often carry battle scares or scratches from living in the wild. I know of one breeder who has more luck with young male SWCP than older ones, so again even for breeding captive can be the more attractive option. Most people here are chasing hatchies (captive bred) that they raise themselves. If there was a nice looking WC woma or something I'd consider buying it, but usually it's not my first preference. Because of this the demand for wild taking drops off once captive populations have increased in number. You can get a hatchy wheatbelt stimi for $250 or a wild caught one for $700. What do you think most people do?
There aren't many takers licenses in WA. That said, it's sad that DEC don't promote captive breeding over wild taking. The restrictions placed on captive breeding really makes you wonder if they place any value in conservation at all.
Other than pythons everything else can be imported from captive populations. Which would mean little or no wild taking. There's a handful of other WA native pythons we would like to see added. Most of which occur in captive collections for exhibition purposes already.

Yeh Snowman,captive bred is definetly the way to go,worth paying more for IMO
You should join DECC,they need people with sense. Cheers

 

[Snowman]

BTW: Just one C on our DEC.. Though I can think of a use for the last C