White lipped pythons.

[jedi_339]

So what your saying is he just believes the data thats submitted ,thats wrong,it is scrutinised .Onley have to look at the bioderversity atlas ,there is black headed pythons from NSW in institutions but they dont pass the data quality tests

Zulu the very link you used before, the bioatlas, has a number of records for the white lipped pythons from the QLD museum, most originating from PNG or Indonesia.
There is one entry with no locality given which may or may not be one of the two "Australian" specimens they are purported to have.

According to the "data quality tests" for most WLP's in Australian collections (notably the one specimen within the qld museum that has not originated from Indonesia or PNG) a lot are missing significant values i.e. date of collection, missing geodetic datum, decimal co-ordinates not supplied, missing name of person who identified the specimen/observation plus a whole raft of others. I think that strengthens Jamie's point about collection data.

No-one is taking shots at Cogger, but his information is still only as good as the data available within the museums collection which as Jamie has stated can at times be quite old and potentially highly inaccurate.

 

[Waterrat]

I actually found some emails from Patric Cooper (QM) and Ross Sadlier (AM):

Hi Michael,
We don’t have any L. albertisi specimens from Torres Strait.
I think the Australian Museum may have one from Thursday Island that was donated by the Australian Customs Service but you’ll have to check on this with Ross Sadlier ([email protected]).
Cheers

Dear Michael,
We have no Liasis albertisi registered in the museum collection from Thursday Island or any other Torres Strait islands. The specimen Patrick is referring to is registered as a Liasis mackloti.
Regard

Interesting, isn't it?

cheers
Michael

 

[jedi_339]

Here is the link (if it works) for the WLP's I saw a few records from the Florida museum of natural history that were labelled as (presumably originating from) Australia, once again with no co-ordinates.

You might be able to make a bit more sense of it than most Jamie.

And a second link at the bottom for the GBIF, not by any means a conclusive argument, however if you zoom in on the map the collected specimens with co-ordinates from recent history show no records from the Australian islands, but there is one record close to the southern coast.


Occurrence search results | Atlas of Living Australia


[url]http://www.gbif.org/species/2465180
[/URL]

 

[zulu]

Zulu the very link you used before, the bioatlas, has a number of records for the white lipped pythons from the QLD museum, most originating from PNG or Indonesia.
There is one entry with no locality given which may or may not be one of the two "Australian" specimens they are purported to have.

According to the "data quality tests" for most WLP's in Australian collections (notably the one specimen within the qld museum that has not originated from Indonesia or PNG) a lot are missing significant values i.e. date of collection, missing geodetic datum, decimal co-ordinates not supplied, missing name of person who identified the specimen/observation plus a whole raft of others. I think that strengthens Jamie's point about collection data.

No-one is taking shots at Cogger, but his information is still only as good as the data available within the museums collection which as Jamie has stated can at times be quite old and potentially highly inaccurate.

At least you see what a data quality test is ,it also doesnt cover all institutions, someone needs to ask Harld Cogger rather than speculate. Is the white lipped python in his newest book etc. It is good that you are actually looking at the links i provided ,interesting subject.

 

[jedi_339]

At least you see what a data quality test is ,it also doesnt cover all institutions, someone needs to ask Harld Cogger rather than speculate. Is the white lipped python in his newest book etc. It is good that you are actually looking at the links i provided ,interesting subject.

I only have the latest edition so can't comment on whether it is the same information as earlier versions.

Under Description
"Australian specimens with reported occurrence on Australia's most northerly Torres Straight Islands"

And then under Distribution
"Reported only from the northernmost 'mud' islands of Torres Straight"

In all honesty I don't know enough about the northern most Torres straight mud islands to answer my next question but does it actually count as a species occupying Australian territory or would it be more likely an occasional vagrant?

Does anyone know much about the mud islands and whether they would support a population?

 

[Waterrat]

Jedi, read DanN's comment (page5) and saltuarius' post (page 8), that will probably answer your question perfectly. Just like none of the TS island would support chondro populations (and many other rainforest dwellers), the habitats on those islands, both structurally and in size, would not support WLPs. Btw, V. prasinus is not an obligatory rainforest dweller, the species is more common in mangroves.

For the life of me, I don't see why Cogger and his book is so relentlessly brought into this.

 

[solar 17]

jedi_339 l spent a fair bit of time in that area and l seriously doubt those mud islands would support a permanant population of much except midgies (lol) but what (from personal experience) cant be under estimated is the "trade" between PNG and SI and the tides and the speed of the current we more than once saw animals (cattle) drifting along often alive but mostly drowned as we often towed cattle up on to these islands and notified the SI elders but most of the time it was too much trouble for them to do much but the live trade between these two would make most of us shudder,everything from poultry,pigs,goannas,turtles and even fish, trussed/tied up it used to make me sick, but that is/was their lifestyle....but SI is "approx" 100 sq. k,s how anyone could say there is "definately none" there (WLP's) has to be a stretch of the debate, there may not be, these are just my personal experiences. solar 17 ~B~

 

[zulu]

I only have the latest edition so can't comment on whether it is the same information as earlier versions.

Under Description
"Australian specimens with reported occurrence on Australia's most northerly Torres Straight Islands"

And then under Distribution
"Reported only from the northernmost 'mud' islands of Torres Straight"

In all honesty I don't know enough about the northern most Torres straight mud islands to answer my next question but does it actually count as a species occupying Australian territory or would it be more likely an occasional vagrant?

Does anyone know much about the mud islands and whether they would support a population?

Saibai is the largest island ,its actually bigger than i thought 20 ks x 6 k wide, the report for it is 2013 has 11 reptile species known and no extensive surveys, worth a read .Other than that things are purely speculation other than museum records ,suppose someone could ask Harold Cogger where his sources are from. http://www.tsra.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/4502/Saibai_Biodiversity_Profile_January_2013.pdf

 

[Waterrat]

For Christ's sake, would somebody ring Hal Cogger and ask him?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

For Christ's sake, would somebody ring Hal Cogger and ask him?

Hahaha!!! Maybe that could be a little job for zulu - he might even have Hal's number by the sound of it...

Jamie

 

[Waterrat]

Quite a bit of intelligence has been put forward by many in this thread along with some convincing information. Sadly, it
has been missed by some. I guess we have to ring Hal after all.

 

[Retic]

When my mate told me he had these I did wonder to myself 'mmm, what will APS make of this ?'

 

[-Peter]

When my mate told me he had these I did wonder to myself 'mmm, what will APS make of this ?'

yeah, fancy discussing a topic such as this on a reptile forum... what next?

 

[champagne]

When my mate told me he had these I did wonder to myself 'mmm, what will APS make of this ?'

Thats really sad that you thought "what will aps make of this?"

Some people really need to get out more... There is a much bigger part of the hobby that does come on aps.

 

[Umbral]

I think he means that often people on forums are very opinionated as there is no emotional connection to the people they are talking to and because of this there were likely to be strong views on the subject.

 

[adderboy]

Thats really sad that you thought "what will aps make of this?"

Some people really need to get out more... There is a much bigger part of the hobby that does come on aps.

But judging by the comments over the past 10 pages or so, he was right...

 

[Retic]

But judging by the comments over the past 10 pages or so, he was right...

Yes, exactly my point

- - - Updated - - -

Thats really sad that you thought "what will aps make of this?"

Some people really need to get out more... There is a much bigger part of the hobby that does come on aps.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at, I wondered what sort of a fight there would be, as it turns out it was exactly as expected.

 

[mje772003]

Late last year at the Scales n Tails reptile festival there was a stall holder that had a White Lipped Python is there anyone out there that breeds and sells them ? As I was interested in the southern species.

 

[Prof_Moreliarty]

Wow hadn't come across this thread interesting read, would also be interested if people are selling these yet I regularly trawl the classifieds to see whats being sold and for how much but haven't seen any WLP's before.