White lipped pythons.

[Pilbarensis]

You two are just laying down the bait for people here haha (myself included)

 

[Pythoninfinite]

already do, still plenty of people keeping exotics on license from the amnesty.

Actually there aren't many now - the amnesty was 17 years ago, most of those animals have expired, but of course there are a few who have bred them against the conditions of the "sunset clause" on their licences, or acquired more to keep the fibs alive...

Jamie

 

[-Peter]

No no no, don't get involved...

 

[eipper]

Peter,

Both Acanthophis laevis and Pseudechis rossignoili were split away from Australian species. So by rights if they were here already in collections you should be able to keep them. As there is already a precedent set down by Morelia azurus.

 

[zulu]

The white lipped pythons in australia will be deemed australian like the GTPs and thats it ,thank you ball boys.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

The white lipped pythons in australia will be deemed australian like the GTPs and thats it ,thank you ball boys.

But... I believe that any examination of museum records will reveal that, unlike Chondros, they've never been found on Australian soil, mainland or island, so the species has not been demonstrated to be Australian. The historic notion that they "might" be found on some Australian Torres Strait islands has been propagated in some non-scientific books dating from decades ago, but this has not translated into fact in the ensuing years.

Jamie

 

[zulu]

Dont know about the non scientific book thing ,they are listed in Harold Coggers ,the one i opened is the 83, he says northern torres straight islands ,he must have had a record or he wouldnt have included the species .
Albertisii is also in the 5th edition of coggers ,good enough for me, i dont know why people are complaining .

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Col, does he say it's an Australian Island? Don't get me wrong, if I can be proven incorrect, I'd be a just as happy man, but having come from a 30 year background in museums, I'm sceptical about "reports" if they're not backed up with specimens. Mark O'Shea in "A Guide to The Snakes of Papua New Guinea," published in the late 90s also suggests that they are "reported for Australia" on the near PNG Australian islands (and the Aussie territory comes within a few kms of the PNG mainland at one point), but what does such a "report" constitute. If a "report" is deemed enough evidence to claim it is an Australian species, then that's fine by me as far as introducing it into collections is concerned, but scientifically, no specimen... no proof.

And then there is the mystery of where has the species been for at least 17 years in collections? Consider Chondros, once a very expensive rarity and considered very difficult to breed, now freely available and within reach of most herpers, and the RSP, brought into captivity in the last 15 years and now almost in oversupply. Weird that L. albertisii hasn't had a similar history...

I don't think genuine questions should be regarded as complaints Col. I'm not complaining at all, as someone who has poked and prodded bureaucracies about these matters for decades, any addition to the species lists in Australia is welcome from my point of view, but please understand that it is my history with almost universally reluctant bureaucracies that has spiked my curiosity. To many here, it's obvious that the end justifies the means, not so for others. Being pragmatic, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.

Jamie

 

[Waterrat]

Jamie, last time I spoke to Allen Greer, he informed me that there are two specimens lodged at the Museum, both supposedly from Saibai Island dating back .... I forgot now, but it was a long, long time ago . However, he also mentioned that the labels were poorly written with a pencil and Allen had doubts that they were actually collected on Saibai and if so, someone might have brought them over from PNG. The island is a stone throw away from PNG and there always has been a lot of boat traffic between the two land forms.

cheers
Michael

 

[Bushman]

Interesting discussion guys. For those interested in reading more on the topic, there's an old thread with more on the subject : http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/australian-snakes-37/anyone-keep-breed-white-lipped-111371/

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Jamie, last time I spoke to Allen Greer, he informed me that there are two specimens lodged at the Museum, both supposedly from Saibai Island dating back .... I forgot now, but it was a long, long time ago . However, he also mentioned that the labels were poorly written with a pencil and Allen had doubts that they were actually collected on Saibai and if so, someone might have brought them over from PNG. The island is a stone throw away from PNG and there always has been a lot of boat traffic between the two land forms.

cheers
Michael

Thanks for that Michael. I'm familiar with the old paper/pencil labels in museum collections! In WA where many specimens were collected, labelled and thrown into drums of formalin in the field, the subsequent travel overland a few thousand ks did wonders for the paper labels! Many of the old specimens were clearly mislabelled or mistakenly labelled, hence for example Antaresia perthensis. A couple of the very old books indicated, based on the name only, that they were found in the south west region of WA.

Anyway, I'm sure some of you will be relieved to know that I think I've made my points in this thread .

Jamie

 

[beach]

l asked my father in law to check for me late last week and he has just got back to me, Queensland Museum does have two specimens of the White Lipped Python, collection point is listed as "Saibai Island" along with Cogger that would be enough for most ppl l believe. Beach

 

[Bushman]

That's correct, according to the latest edition of Harold Cogger's 'Reptiles and Amphibians of Australia' (2014), which includes White-lipped Python as Leiopython albertisii.

"Australian specimens, with reported occurrence on Australia's most northerly Torres Strait islands, are grey brown, the young sometimes with darker heads."

"Distribution: Reported only from the northernmost 'mud' islands of Torres Strait, lying just off the New Guinea mainland. Extra-limital in southern New Guinea. The relationship of this form to the illustrated smaller, brown, black-headed form from northern New Guinea is uncertain."

The pics posted up by the original poster of this thread, seem to be Australian specimens, according to the description given above.

 

[zulu]

l asked my father in law to check for me late last week and he has just got back to me, Queensland Museum does have two specimens of the White Lipped Python, collection point is listed as "Saibai Island" along with Cogger that would be enough for most ppl l believe. Beach

Yeh cogger didnt pluck them out of the sky ,a report from 2013 of the bioderversity says there is 12 known reptiles and that they have not been properly surveyed ,they expect emerald tree monitors would be found as they are common on the nearby australian island of boigu .White lipped pythons could also be on boigu.
Reptiles are low priority things with wings getting all the attention ,even in the ADI site near St Marys they had only identified about 8 reptiles before half was built on,just low on the priority list ,and someone might find something that stalls developement.

 

[eipper]

Beach,
Who is your father in law? I want to know because I am curious....that should be reason enough

 

[BARRAMUNDI]

Best thread in months, about time there was a notable, constructive and informative thread to discuss......some awesome insights.......

cheers guys

 

[AUSHERP]

Sure beats "what do I feed my beardie?"

It wouldn't be unlikely the white lips have a colony on Saibai or Boigu, being so close to PNG mainland. Though it wouldn't necessarily have to be a colony, even storm standed individuals would satisfy the definition.

 

[zulu]

There is rainforrest and woodland patches ,the island is around 15 ks long, python species there are likely to be mainly nocturnal . Would be interesting to see what a long study could find with reptiles generally.

 

[Shotta]

is it true that WLP's need higher humidity and lower basking temps?

 

[insitu]

is it true that WLP's need higher humidity and lower basking temps?

could be, prasinus does but i dont know a lot about the ecology of white lips at all