Australian Representative Herp Body

[marcus0002]

Reptiles Australia. Simple and easy to remember. Adding Amphibian to it makes it to many syllables and nobody outside the hobby knows what herp means

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[RedFox]

Australian Reptile Keepers Association (ARKA)

Anyone else? I agree with Marcus that Herpetology or herpetological shouldn't be used, to avoid confusion with the already established herp societies.

 

[mangrove]

Australian Association of Reptile Keepers - AARK

 

[junglepython2]

To all those in QLD that implied they wouldn't want to be part of a national organisation as they are happy with the status quo. It appears there maybe plans afoot to cap restricted reptiles to 20 per license. If this is allowed it well may be a slippery slope from there.

 

[RedFox]

To all those in QLD that implied they wouldn't want to be part of a national organisation as they are happy with the status quo. It appears there maybe plans afoot to cap restricted reptiles to 20 per license. If this is allowed it well may be a slippery slope from there.

This involves capping vens to 20 animals due to 'them being a risk to public safety'. There has being a bit of talk about this on elapid fb pages over the last few days. At the moment they are just rumors, hopefully they stay that way. If vens were to be capped it could imply other reptiles would eventually be capped as well. QLD while having a fairly good license system compared to the other states, still has the chance of further restrictions affecting the hobby.

 

[insitu]

Australian Reptile Keepers Association (ARKA)

Anyone else? I agree with Marcus that Herpetology or herpetological shouldn't be used, to avoid confusion with the already established herp societies.

I like it! it means i dont have to buy another shirt





kids size small and been a while since iv put it on but that size seems to be what all the blokes my age are wearing these days anyway

 

[stencorp69]

Pretty easy to see why the national body didn't get off the ground - too much diversity and not enough unity. There just doesn't seem to be a common enough enemy to bind us all together.

 

[eipper]

Gavin and Co.,

I have said it before I will say it again. If there is something I can assist with let me know

cheers
Scott Eipper

 

[Slickturtle]

A NATIONAL REPRESENTATIVE HERP BODY

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

Hi all - Greg Miles here again.

Shown below is a list of ideas to kick around. I apologise if there is a bit of duplication here and there.

These are just my ideas. Mike Cermak has some good points too. (I added his list below for your convenience)

Of this list, what would be important to you? Is there anything that you would add or want to expand upon? Is there anything that you would want deleted from this list and that of Mike’s? I know that some of the ideas would be very difficult to achieve, or take a lifetime to achieve, but I don't see a problem with putting them out there to look at. They all contribute to help putting us on the same page - if you know what I mean?!

Maybe you will tell me that I am dreaming! Probably a fair comment too. But every marathon starts with the first step!!

Benefits for hobbyists. (“What’s in it for me?”) Aims:

• Simplify and rationalise the various state laws and policies.
• Dramatically expand the range of species that can be kept in all states – including Threatened Species.
• Push for changes in legislation in order to allow captive bred reptiles (including Threatened Species) to be exported overseas commercially.
• Turn around the perception that the ‘commercialisation of wildlife’ (in this case “herpetoculture”) is a bad thing. It is not necessarily a bad thing at all. If the Govt. agencies can learn to see that trading in reptiles can have positive conservation outcomes, the flow-on from that could make life a lot easier for everyone.
• Revise the interface between the hobbyists and government agencies from one of distrust, to one whereby they see (most) hobbyists as a positive resource that can be engaged for mutual benefit.
• Build trust with Govt. agencies to the point where they recruit selected hobbyists to trial the captive management of certain rare, and or declining species. Chance that some Govt. funding could come with this.
• Build connections with the research community to the point where hobbyists can work (volunteer) in the field with reptile biologists. I.E. a working holiday with rare reptiles at exotic locations.
• Build relationships with the major zoos and wildlife parks in order for hobbyists to become an extension to their reptile breeding and conservation programs. (If they want that)
• Develop agreed policy positions on the more contentions reptiles. I.E. provide an appropriate and strong framework catering for the needs of people who keep morphs, venomous species, large Varanids and large pythons.
• Provide an education program that can include a series of national reptile conferences, which would be attended by hobbyists at little or no cost. They could precede or follow on from state expos.
• Develop programs that would engage more young people to enter the hobby and develop skills. This could involve new arenas such as the keeping of communities of small skinks – rare or common.

List from Mike Cermak:
1. Abolish interstate trade restrictions – no import / export permits.
2. Allow trading with all species privately as well as at reptile expos in all States and Territories, not just selected species – if they were all bred in captivity.
3. Abolish annual returns (already existing and successful in Qld).
4. Provide guidance to keepers instead of enforceable restrictions, e.g. cage sizes.
5. Stop referring to captive bred reptiles as “wildlife” because it is not. It’s a product of herpetoculture.
6. Make uniform laws / regulations / procedures nation wide.
7. Abolish the 6 months holding period, it’s futile and often ignored by keepers.
8. Implement restrictions and regulations only when it concerns conservation of species.

 

[chimerapro]

https://m.facebook.com/NARKRB
National Austrlian Reptile Keepers Regulatory Body is my suggestion for a name. I'm already trying to show my support in what little way I know how. Greg I never had the chance to introduce myself at the Ipswich expo but I had a quick chat with Gavin. I wish to offer my support and seek guidance as to how I can help in whatever way possible. I'm planning a trip to NT soon in the hopes of meeting with you both and discussing more with you face to face.

 

[Slickturtle]

https://m.facebook.com/NARKRB
National Austrlian Reptile Keepers Regulatory Body is my suggestion for a name. I'm already trying to show my support in what little way I know how. Greg I never had the chance to introduce myself at the Ipswich expo but I had a quick chat with Gavin. I wish to offer my support and seek guidance as to how I can help in whatever way possible. I'm planning a trip to NT soon in the hopes of meeting with you both and discussing more with you face to face.

Thanks for that Chimerapro

I am heading interstate for a few weeks on Wednesday. So I will give you a call later.

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Hi all.

Here is another instalment showing what a national reptile keepers body could look like and do. Once again, these are just ideas. There is nothing hard and fast about this. We want to hear what you think.

Major Functions of a national reptile keepers body.
1. Represent the hobby in a nationally unified way. And make life easier and more rewarding for reptile keepers!
2. Improve conservation outcomes for some Australian reptiles and frogs
3. Develop national unity amongst reptile keepers.
4. Develop agreed policy positions on the more contentions reptiles.
5. Interfacing professionals with amateurs.
6. Networking.
7. Increase public exposure through strategic use of the media.

1. Represent the hobby in a nationally unified way

• Can lobby state and federal politicians with the weight of a nation-wide membership behind us.
• Can show a massed and united front to elected parliamentarians and departmental bureaucrats.
• May be able to branch out to make ideological allies of other native animal keepers groups such as the aviculturalists, aquarists and mammal botherers. In an ideal world we could ultimately form a united front where issues of common concern occur.
• Can invigorate more keepers around Australia to join up to what we do.
• Provide a first point of contact for state and federal policy making bodies.
• Can develop workable codes of conduct as they pertain to animal welfare issues. This being to try to head off such things being imposed on the hobby from outside.
• Create strength in numbers. We estimate that there are about 60,000 licenced native animal keepers in Oz., mainly reptile keepers. If we get our way – in 10 years or so – there could be 200,000. These numbers would/could carry considerable force in government circles.
• Could estimate the economic and (potential) conservation value of our hobby nationally and use this to advance our aims.

 

[shamat]

Great starting point. I think a nationwide member based organisation with some form of minimal membership fee should be seriously considered. This would enable those who have no other means of contribution to the cause to be involved and would generate funds for market awareness campaigns and assist in the significant cost associated with what we are trying to do for all those involved.

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[Bushman]

That's an excellent overview Greg. It's great to see such well respected herpers such yourself getting involved with this. We need such figureheads, so as to give credibility and political clout to the cause. It also helps tremendously in gaining widespread support, without which these sorts of undertakings are unlikely to succeed.
Everyone should be very grateful that we have such first class representatives stepping up to make something happen.

Where to from here? I reckon that good leaders need a good team behind them. You guys can delegate tasks to competent and diplomatic volunteers. I urge everyone that is willing and able to help in some way to lend their support and give their time freely to those leading this initiative. If we stand idly by doing nothing, you can bet your bottom dollar that there are forces at work as we speak, that are actively seeking to further their control, interfere and mismanage our hobby and passion for herpetology. Let's not take our current privileges for granted.

You have our full support Greg, Gavin, Mike, Jamie & co. If there's anything that APS can do to further the cause just let us now.

 

[Newhere]

So is this happening or are we all just dreaming? I reckon pick a name by the end of the week and get started on the website so we can all sign up. Someone start a thread about name suggestions and we can pick the best one that way everyone gets a say. Been watching this thread for a while and its just dragging out when its something that everyone wants so lets get to it.

 

[Slickturtle]

Slow down Newhere. I appreciate your comment, but we are still 'lining up the ducks'. What we are doing here is laying out all the things that could come across the desk of a national body. By detailing it here for all to read them people will get a better idea of what is or is not good in their view. Once it has all been laid out, we go the next step - which include the web site which is being designed right now.

As for settling on the name, I know very little about forums and struggle to post a post - let alone "start a new thread". LOL

I will leave that up to someone else. But in the meantime here is something else to think about. These are ideas about reptile conservation benefits that could come from a national body. Whadoyareckon Newhere? : -

2. Improve Conservation outcomes for reptiles.

• Advanced keepers should be able to keep, breed and trade in captive bred reptiles, including endangered species. In terms of rare species, exportation would be promoted as a conservation activity aimed at forestalling extinction of a declining species in this country - while the relevant authorities find a fix for the cause of the declines in the wild. You could call it an “ex-situ, anti-extinction” activity if you like. The 'International Union for the Conservation of Nature' (one of the world highest rating international conservation bodies) support this idea. The Endangered Gouldian Finch is an example of this. E.G. There are more Gouldians breeding in captivity overseas, than exist in the wild in Australia.
• Help the Government conservation agencies to understand that increased ‘legal’ breeding and trading in reptiles can destroy the illegal wildlife trafficker’s business model and stop poaching dead in its tracks.
• Urge the Government conservation agencies to actively promote and nurture the keeping and breeding of rare species amongst private keepers. This could develop into a new and important conservation arm of the agencies. A logical spinoff from this would be genuine conservation benefit for rare species, as opposed to the current expenditure on compliance, which has dubious conservation benefit for most (maybe any) species.
• Lobby Govt. agencies to have most common reptiles removed from the “permitted” species lists. The permit system does little or nothing to improve the conservation status of common species and yet it can cost state governments millions of dollars in compliance costs. These dollars would be better spent on real conservation projects. The government agencie’s core role is the conservation of species, not the welfare of individual animals. This points needs to be driven home to state politicians, policy makers and the public at large.
• The advanced keepers will develop the husbandry techniques needed to keep and breed Threatened Species. This knowledge would then be passed down the line to regular keepers who purchase captive bred endangered species from the advanced keepers. It would all be done hand in glove with the wildlife authorities up to the point when the species becomes common in captivity. The Rough Scaled Python is an example of this. I recognise of course that this will most likely apply only to the bigger, prettier and charismatic species. As for who will save the small, brown and boring – well that is exactly what a national body like this should concern itself with.
• Urge the Federal conservation agencies to develop protocols for the commercial trade of captive bred Australian reptiles overseas.

 

[Newhere]

There are some really good ideas there mate, are you suggesting legal trading in non native reptiles aswell or just exporting natives?

 

[jacorin]

well i threw this discussion out there in FB land in some reptile groups that i'm in.... within 2 mins i'd been flamed badly about "it's an old discussion...not this again.....yada yada yada"

so that shows how little the outside thinks of the idea

 

[Slickturtle]

There are some really good ideas there mate, are you suggesting legal trading in non native reptiles aswell or just exporting natives?

In an ideal world I would very much like to see a well managed hobby keeping, breeding and exporting exotics. I can see huge conservation benefits there - not so much for Australia - but for the country of origin. One only has to look at the desperate plight of some reptiles from Madagascar (see Wildlife Extra News - 500 tortoises saved from pet trade in Madagascar). Why can't we breed them here and make money from them at the same time as destroying the poachers business and guaranteeing that the species will not go extinct? But that ain't gonna happen anytime soon because our bureaucrats are sooo conservative and sooo cautious that such an idea would be impossible for them to grasp. Why can't we be allowed to breed and sell Madagascar's highly endangered and mouthwateringly beautiful chameleons for instance? We have the climate in much of Australia - and the talent. It could be a good little earner for the Government too.

But sadly no, I am only talking about natives - at this stage. But ideas like the one I pose above are the sort of thing that a national body could campaign for.

 

[Waterrat]

jacorin (and others), not everyone is going to like / support / even say good things about the proposed organization, that's unfortunate but understandable. Try to look at it this way: we have a government that few people like and support, there are those who don't care and there is also an army of haters. But we still have a government that runs the country as a unit which is respected by other countries. Just imagine if we didn't have any government, it would be chaos and we would be the laughing stock of the world ...... and that's exactly what we (herpers) are right now in the eyes of the ruling wildlife bureaucrats.

cheers
Michael

 

[Slickturtle]

well i threw this discussion out there in FB land in some reptile groups that i'm in.... within 2 mins i'd been flamed badly about "it's an old discussion...not this again.....yada yada yada"

so that shows how little the outside thinks of the idea

Hi jacorin

That is OK. For many people the idea is a difficult one to grasp. And getting something like this up and running from scratch is an extremely difficult thing to do. Rome wasn't built in a day and we can but do our best. What we have to do is focus in on, "What's in it for me." That is part of the reason that I am laying out the 'big picture' in bite sized pieces. If it is widely rejected - then so be it.

We take comfort from knowing that there are really big numbers of people (and key people) who support it as well and are prepared to be involved. We have no problem with critics watching from the sidelines - so long as they don't throw hand grenades over our fence! The gate will always be unlocked for them to come in. LOL

Thanks for your comment. We will soldier on!!