Commodore Snake???

[-Peter]

If you discuss these things through PMs then nobody learns anything. I thought Jonno approached it professionally and you did as well. Top points all round. I see no reason to get the hump. As to ecological concerns sorry but Im with Jonno.

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

poor little fella

 

[swingonthespiral]

Ok Peter & Jonno so with that logic then no reptile found in someones backyard should be released back into the wild???

Lets say someone finds a carpet in thier kids cubby house, they live with a national park behind them. BUT because we can't retrace it steps it is now in captivity for the rest of its life because under your way of thinking it could have been bought in by the bloke next door who goes fishing at the cape??? Therefore there would be no need for reptile removals at all.... we should all just stick them in a box because we have no way of knowing where it had come from 100%

I think this is where LOGIC should come into play.

I also like how you ignored rednuts comment.

 

[deebo]

im not sure who is right or wrong, not enough experience or knowledge, but im just glad that someone didnt introduce the snake to a shovel! good work on saving the little fella i reckon.
Dave

 

[swingonthespiral]

thanks David..... im sure thats where he wouldve ended up..... unfortunately too many people still have the 'only good snake is a dead snake' attitude

 

[Radar]

Fair enough genetic conservation is a problem in isolated populations that have evolved independently to some extent, and in this case isolation by distance is most probably the model operating. The populations are too continous to be operating under a metapopulation or island model (historically anyway, no doubt they have become somewhat disjointed since european arrival, although this is hardley an evolutionarily significant timescale in a reasonable sized population), yet the fact that snakes lack the ability to move huge distances unaided means they are less likely to exchange genes with other individuals far away, even though they still maintain they ability to do so (evidenced by intergrades and captive hybridisation). The fact that they are not truely sexually isolated (besides spatially isolated) also brings to bear the thought that they are not even classed as seperate species (under the current biological species concept, nor under the ecological species concept). Its not necessarily my belief, but if you want to go 'by the book' til the death, then thats the way it is. But thats beside the point.........

I looked after native wildlife for 9 years, mainly birds. Birds obviously have the ability to move much further than snakes, but we always released them in the area they were found in, regardless of whether they were permenant resident species or species only temporarily in the area. Some individuals (Torresian pidgeons esp.) had to be maintained in captivity untill the next migration. These animals were ALWAYS released, regularly in national parks (they were often brought to us by parks officials who happily agreed to take care of the release when the time came). Think of it this way, worst case senario:
-if it is introduced into an area it doesn't come from, but which still has a population of Carpets
1) the animals ecological niche is no different, so it will not cause anymore damage to native wildlife than the naturally occuring population.
2) It may introduce a few new genes - if these are unsuited to the conditions, they will be lost though natural selection - if they are well suited, they will most likely already be present and as such no change in heterozygosity levels or gene function will occur. As colour in these animals is so variable already it is pointless worrying about that.
3) pests and diseases - all wildlife carry a heavy parasite load, and it will just come down to Cass not releasing the animal unless it is healthy. Im sure she wouldnt release an unhealthy animal, not after all the work she has put into trying to save it.

I know it is more complicated than that, but I've got a meeting with my supervisor to get to, so.........:?

Rant Over

 

[swingonthespiral]

very well said rednut..... you are more than just a pretty hair colour huh??? LOL

 

[GEARJAMMER]

he can probably drive a commodore better than Wayne Gardiner could:lol::lol:

 

[swingonthespiral]

whats funny is the car came in because of a weird noise coming from the front end..... i had to contain myself when the service advisor said it was recorded from the owners that there was a hissing noise LMAO

 

[-Peter]

now your just being silly.

 

[steve6610]

whats silly about anything thats been said, there are always 2 sides to the story, just because they have a different side to yours doesn't make them silly,


remember that cass did the right thing and went to the local epa and has their advice, so why should she not do as they said, after all, they are the LOCAL epa, so they will know best for their area,

 

[-Peter]

Ok Peter & Jonno so with that logic then no reptile found in someones backyard should be released back into the wild???

Lets say someone finds a carpet in thier kids cubby house, they live with a national park behind them. BUT because we can't retrace it steps it is now in captivity for the rest of its life because under your way of thinking it could have been bought in by the bloke next door who goes fishing at the cape??? Therefore there would be no need for reptile removals at all.... we should all just stick them in a box because we have no way of knowing where it had come from 100%

I think this is where LOGIC should come into play.

I also like how you ignored rednuts comment.

This is being silly and as to Rednuts comment, well up to that point he hadnt said a thing. Ïm an ecologist" BFD!
You learn as you go along, if you dont then you screw up. Take a step back and open up to learning. Jonno's advice was sound and you could take it in and evaluate it. If I took the advice of have the EPA NPWS and wildlife carers I'd be releaseing carpets in Sydney, womas in Melbourne and cane toads in Perth.
Yes a bit of logic goes a long way so maybe you should try it instead of doing the your wrong Im right game. You know, Thanks for the advice Jonno but I think after weighing up the evidence so far we'll go for a release." easy innit.



Personally, I think that once an animal goes into captivity it is no longer releasable but im willing to play he game and go along with the current way of thinking which is to make everyone feel nice and fuzzy inside and do catch, patch and release.

.

 

[da_donkey]

It would be good if we could disscus this in its own thread, as i find peoples different views very interesting when it comes to wildlife rescue / release.

Maybe a mod could move some of the comments into a new thread.

 

[swingonthespiral]

Again mate.... LOGIC

It is not LOGICAL to release a Woma in melbourne because it is not thier natural habitat etc etc. Again with that logic you are saying that an injured endangered animal should not be released regardless of its important to the ECOLOGY of the area and survival of the species. Which is obviously not that case here I am taking that as an example.

Yes i could have said that, but weren't you the one saying that its a good thing to have situations like this aired so everyone can see different points of view???

Thats exactly what i did.

And no one made it a right and wrong game except for you calling mine and rednuts comments 'silly'. Maybe you should take some of your own advice.

I have assested the situation. Taken advice of the local epa/qpws. He will be released if myself, my advising vet and the epa/qpws see it suitable to be.

(by the way the 'hissing noise' was because of a hole in the air con compresser)

 

[PhilK]

swingonthespiral I reckon you're doing the right thing here, you should definitily release the little tacker. It's impossible to be able to retrace the steps of a snake perfectly. He could be an illegal het for jag imported from America that escaped into a national park then the car... So maybe you should euthanase him!

The simplest explanation is often the right one, so I'd say release the sucker back into the wild where he is from!

 

[Pythons Rule]

sorry but you are probably both right each state has different rules, where are you from jonno?

 

[swingonthespiral]

thank you PhilK....

I'll keep everyone updated on his progress..... even if it means wading through the negative comments.....

 

[swingonthespiral]

I think Jonno is from Brissie pythons rule im not sure.....

 

[Radar]

Peter, fair enough, I get a bit worked up sometimes.
Cass, you can have your flame suit back on sunday, I'll be done with it by then.

And no, pretty hair colour pretty much covers it, it can go in my list of descriptors beside 'geek' and 'greenie'

 

[Pythons Rule]

cass your doing a grate job with this poor lil guy and all you have to do is do what you've been told buy your local epa, no need you doing the opersit and getting in big trouble for it, as I said each state is different. Keep up the great work. and i hope to be as lucky as you one day.

Jonno I think your piont is of a proffessional appinion too but you pionted out that it was awile ago when you last spoke to them, they may have changed the rules since then. and also each state is different in there rules so don't discard cass's advice as wrong and ignorant.

cheers jody