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Big monitors make a great garbage disposal unit.
As we venture more towards Jags, albinos ect our gene pools will become tighter and tighter and more deformities will pop up it is your obligation as a breeder to cull your defects and stop bad genes from being passed on.
 
This is an opinions/views thread so I'll just post mine though I know many may disagree with it :) I'm not a breeder but my opinions are based on my veterinary background.

Natural selection just about doesn't exist when humans are involved, for example in breeding captive snakes. people can line breed, cross breed etc to produce animals that would never naturally survive, or poor feeders for example- yet with human assistance these can survive, grow and reproduce themselves, which can produce more problematic young. So with poor 'technique' and lack of attention so many problems can arise as a result. Look at domestic dog breeds for example- there are SO many problems in so many different breeds, some which are really quite severe and life threatening. And dog breeding for example continues to 'better the breeds' yet the animals are actually going downhill, and many of which I believe have now become a welfare issue.

So, how do you keep strong animals? This is where I think I may go against many people- don't breed animals unlikely to survive in the wild, those with hereditary conditions or those that are KNOWN to produce 'defective' offspring- whether they have in the past or they come from a line known to produce problematic animals. As an EXAMPLE Jag carpets- not all have neuro issues, and the severity varies. Personally I do not think animals with known problems, or those known to produce animals with defects such as the neuro signs in jags should be bred. Don't get me wrong I absolutely adore the look of jags but do not agree with the principle to produce them. Having to cull animals should be avoided at all costs, and the best way to avoid it is to avoid breeding known, problematic animals. Ethically I think its wrong to breed animals to get a select few 'ideal' ones with a good appearance yet have a known defect, just because they look nice. I think the same of any other species, whether it has fur, scales or feathers.

As to culling vs. persisting with deformed or very poor doer's- provided it is done humanely and for the right reasons (i.e. not just because it doesn't look how the breeder wants it to), fine. However, the ideal option if it is a line bred animal and multiple problematic animals are cropping up, is to not breed these animals, as I stated above. Culling should not be used as a 'solution' for the problematic animals. If it is an animal with a defect likely to have been caused due to a problem with the incubation, and it will not be passed to offspring, I don't see an issue with them being sold as pets. Really- what is the lesser of two evils? Culling the occasional sporadic deformed animal or producing weaker animals in the future?

Anyway, hope this made sense. 3am and a bit tired :)
 
will be culling of and deformed/weak pythons i breed before anyone gets a chance to know they existed. it has been happening naturally for thousands of years and that is why we have such strong beautiful animals to work with now. i do not believe that keeping them alive is the right thing to do in any way shape or form. if we want to have good quality reptiles for future generations it is our obligation. this does not mean i will kill animals that are a bit hard to get going. don't get me wrong if the deformity is not hereditary and wont be passed down to the next generation then i cant see why it is a problem. i will do my best to find it a good home. but an animal that is known to have serious "issues" i cannot trust anyone to not breed that animal in the future and ruin our valuable gene pool.
 
I've been into fishkeeping most of my life. Breeding certain colour strains that lead to deformities associated with that colour. When breeding, to produce the best, I would cull up to 60% of my spawns. This lead to only the strongest, biggest and healthiest animals going into the market. Personally if I was breeding on a large scale particularly with weak straind animals I would not be opposed to culling (humanely) the weaker animals. I often fed my culls to other animals, at least then it is not a waste.
 
The subject of culling weak/deformed animals of any kind will always be a touchy subject . I have never bred snakes and doubt I ever will but have bred other animals and I am totally against breeding weak animals . I have only culled animals that are in pain and have no possible chance of a pain free life . I give any animal a chance at life no matter what but this is a personal choice and I can understand others not having a choice but to cull. I understand some see it as breeders only caring about lining their pockets and not the welfare of what they breed but until snakes can be steralized nothing can stop a person who is given a snake with some form of weakness from trying to breed from it . A responsible breeder will strive to improve and strengthen their breeding stock and culling is an important part of this , selecting the best of what you have bred and selling the rest is also a part of the culling process. I never gave away any weaklings but kept them until they died , thankfully through breeding with strong stock this was only encountered rarely . I currently have a snake that is a poor feeder , two birds that cant fly and a duck with a dud eye , I didnt breed these but Im a softy and cant help myself , I actually bought the snake and duck . For those against culling / killing just give a thought to how you would feel if you paid for an animal you thought was in good health only to find later that it had health issues that resulted in you paying out hundreds of dollars in vet bills trying to save its life because someone had chosen to breed from weak stock .
 
Throwing a spanner in the works here. If breeders only cull/kill the weak/deformed animals, why do I rarely if ever see Jag siblings advertised for sale.

I bred some jags last season and kept all the siblings. the siblings look pretty good. theres variance with them between clutches as far as colours and patterns go.

personally I think the siblings are a good choice for people to use in their jag projects as it gives them a purpose and Im not happy with the idea of culling them. so rather than keep continually out crossing with pure animals (which your never going to get 100% anyway so all the percentages 50% 75% or whatever are moot) using the siblings is another option.

now to answer your question why dont you see jag siblings advertised? personally Ive been selling my rpm-jags without any problem so havent really advertised them on the forum. and Im giving a free sibling with every jag sold (while stock lasts) and have given a few away free to friends so Im not advertising siblings "for sale"

just because you may not see adverts for them doesn't necessarily mean people have culled them.
 
I bred some jags last season and kept all the siblings. the siblings look pretty good. theres variance with them between clutches as far as colours and patterns go.

personally I think the siblings are a good choice for people to use in their jag projects as it gives them a purpose and Im not happy with the idea of culling them. so rather than keep continually out crossing with pure animals (which your never going to get 100% anyway so all the percentages 50% 75% or whatever are moot) using the siblings is another option.

now to answer your question why dont you see jag siblings advertised? personally Ive been selling my rpm-jags without any problem so havent really advertised them on the forum. and Im giving a free sibling with every jag sold (while stock lasts) and have given a few away free to friends so Im not advertising siblings "for sale"

just because you may not see adverts for them doesn't necessarily mean people have culled them.

I realise not everyone culls them or needs/wants to advertise, it was more a question than an accusation. Just wanting to know really as I have only ever seen a couple advertised and yes they are nice looking.
 
I realise not everyone culls them or needs/wants to advertise, it was more a question than an accusation. Just wanting to know really as I have only ever seen a couple advertised and yes they are nice looking.

no probs.. I really didnt see your post as an accusation though.. and was just trying to give my personal explanation to your question. cheers
 
Why should there be a need to cull weak animals?

One question raised would be WHY are they the way they are?

If you are getting animals that are sick or weak, there is obviously a problem somewhere with either the breeder, or the parents of the snakes anyway, yet you still bread them...
Isn't that just a little hypocritical?
Yeah, accidents happen, but if you a repeat offender of these animals that are not "up to scratch" then I'd be looking a little deeper into why.

Forgive me if I am wrong, I don't breed but that's just somthing I was wondering.
 
Can anyone actually comfirm that sibs are being killed? I see alot of people saying the breeders are but speak to the breeders no one has....
 
I dream of the day I hatch a two headed snake or a 5 legged lizard/ cyclops.... I will be keeping the little bugger's forever , haha
I have time to baby what I hatch if they arnt 100% so I will baby them.
Love deformed reptiles , and it's fun to name them after people you know ;)
 
i am new to reptiles and will never breed, but as a buyer i hope my breeder i bought from does cull as it would mean im less likely to have issues with my beautiful new baby
 
Why should there be a need to cull weak animals?

One question raised would be WHY are they the way they are?

If you are getting animals that are sick or weak, there is obviously a problem somewhere with either the breeder, or the parents of the snakes anyway, yet you still bread them...
Isn't that just a little hypocritical?
Yeah, accidents happen, but if you a repeat offender of these animals that are not "up to scratch" then I'd be looking a little deeper into why.

Forgive me if I am wrong, I don't breed but that's just somthing I was wondering.

Some just don't develop properly- in colubrids there's often one or two in a clutch that just obviously weren't 'meant' to make it- they just lack energy, may not eat, may have depth percepion problems, etc etc etc..I have no idea how often this happens in 'wild' populations, but safe to say they don't make it to the gene pool..only the strong survive long enough to breed. I think it's part of your responsibility as a breeder to make sure the same happens with domestic populations as well.

Rather than just selling at half price as 'non feeders'..Ugh.
 
I am by no means a experenced breeder but if i was to breed any reptiles that have a deformaty or is weak ,and iam not going to keep it for its whole life then yes i would consider culling it/them off .

we had a clutch of blueys a few years ago,1 was "lucky'' to survive through intervention and lived happily for several years another 1 was born deformed but "twistie" also lived well for many years
 
I have just read this from start to finish, found it to be probably one of the best quality threads I have found since I have been on this site with minimal personal attacks on a very serious topic. I realise it was started 2 years ago but it is definately an important topic and newbies like me should definately consider the responsibilities we are in for if we consider breeding in the future.

I am definately pro culling when it comes to quality of life and genetic deformities.
 
Besides deformaties, poor feeders, neuro issues ect, how many people out there just cull offspring for their poor pattern.
I think people will be quite surprised!

Dan
 
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