Culling off weak reptiles?

[beatlloydy]

For those that say killing off a fussy feeder is ok.


Anything that is deformed should be euthanized immediately, Ive never understood the 'freak show' collectors that want 2 headed animals or 1 eyed animals etc.

I agree with 99% of what you are saying except the above quote....when I purchased a pair of womas from a reputable breeding institution I was also offered a female woma with only 1 eye. She is 100% normal apart from this...I dont think it is a genetic trait (but have no proof). She is the most voracious of the 3 in the eating dept, yet also the calmest of the 3.

I dont regret getting her. She is leading a good life and didnt deserve to be put down due to something that is not 100% amongst breeders. Two headed snakes may be a different matter.

This debate is one I read with interest...from it we can see numerous points of view. However, we all possess slightly different moral compasses. That is what makes us human...I am not saying my point of view is the correct one...merely my own.

 

[mrs_davo]

This thread started as a reasonable discussion & has turned into a well fueled DEBATE.
If you are a serious breeder you will do what you want with your reptiles, & if not you will look after your little babies forever untill they pass not giving even a glimce at the time that you could have spent doing something worthwhile.
there is obviously people on both sides & niether will win the debate.

I see that there is a thread going on at the moment saying that there aren’t enough decent reptile discussions happening on this forum at the moment so I thought that I’ll put one up that I find interesting and would be interested in other peoples thoughts on the matter.

I breed a few snakes every year and the hatchlings that I find aren’t up starch, either with kinks, problem feeders, or deformed in any way get culled off. I used to give these snakes away as pets with strict instructions that the snakes I give away are never to be bred or sold, as I believe that breeding weak snakes just creates more weak snakes, but after a few years I found that some of the snakes I’d given away had either been given away again or sold or even worse, been bred.

What I’m wanting to know is how many other reptile breeders cull off their weak or deformed hatchling and if you don’t cull them off what do you do with them?

 

[giggle]

I've culled a limited number of designer animals that were not up to scratch physically. If these animals were seen in the flesh prior to being euthanised most designer BHP fans would cry at seeing them go, but selective breeing isn't just about keeping the best of the best. I could have sold them for a discount, or even near top dollar given their appearance and the genetics held but all I would be doing is risking the 'injection' of weaker blood into the 'line' or future generations. Exceptions are only made with something truly unique, exceptional or new. And as Troy said, in these cases the animal in question would be kept back and outcrossed.

Obviously some people shudder at the thought of euthanising an animal, or seeing something be euthanised that may "pull through with attention and time". I respect their views. But myself, and certain other breeders, are breeding to ensure future generations are as strong as they can be in all aspects of feeding, health and finally appearance. Ensuring all animals that are produced and passed on are as good as I would expect or would want to own myself.

Very good post I agree. From my standpoint, nothing is worth passing the buck on, if it means my actions may cause either weakness in the lines or the future suffering of an animal. And I have learnt over many years, that the only person you can trust with the future of your lines, is yourself. Therefor, if you dare to entrust someone with your lines, you better make sure the specimens you provide them with are foolproof

 

[Glimmerman]

I have culled or feed off the weak hatchies many at time. I personally believe that if it is an animal that has taken 4 months to feed and after that you force feed it for a few more months - it is not worth the risk to continue this until it decides it wishes to feed. If this is a genetic characteristic, I do not wish that trait to be bred - therefore to snake heaven it goes. Same goes for kink back etc.

I can confidently say however, I have never had to kill an animal due to not be able to sell it. Adult snakes that have had to be euthanased have been to a vet for diagnosis prior to making the discussion to do so.

 

[Gusbus]

I have culled or feed off the weak hatchies many at time. I personally believe that if it is an animal that has taken 4 months to feed and after that you force feed it for a few more months - it is not worth the risk to continue this until it decides it wishes to feed. If this is a genetic characteristic, I do not wish that trait to be bred - therefore to snake heaven it goes. Same goes for kink back etc.

I can confidently say however, I have never had to kill an animal due to not be able to sell it. Adult snakes that have had to be euthanased have been to a vet for diagnosis prior to making the discussion to do so.

agree with u there bud

 

[Defective]

personally i don't like the word culling as it's a harsh word and should only be used for pests like feral rabbits, foxes, pigeons and when the need arises on KI koalas and kangaroos. maybe the term 'put to sleep' IMHO

I personally would not put any animal to sleep if i had a firm belief it had a chance. i would pay the mega bills for meds or surgery because i think every animal deserves to live. No, i wouldn't breed a snake with deformities just like i've chosen not to have children because i don't want to risk them becoming epieptics due to a gene mutation like i have or any birth deformities due to my meds (plus i don't want to die because i came off my meds)

i guess with some TLC and a special needs enclosure the snake can live normal lives. dunno much but i have had to lizard-sit a beardie with only 3 legs and he was also the runt so yeah.

 

[Echiopsis]

personally i don't like the word culling as it's a harsh word and should only be used for pests like feral rabbits, foxes, pigeons and when the need arises on KI koalas and kangaroos. maybe the term 'put to sleep' IMHO

Are you serious? Its a word to describe the process, harden up :lol: Kill, destroy, cull, 'put to sleep....it all results in....death.

You need to think about the well being of the animal not about your human needs, surviving isnt the same as thriving.

 

[Defective]

i said personallyi hate the word cull!...i mean these are our pets are you going to cull a litter of puppies or kittens because a couple have deformities? if that were the case then i would be inundated with them because i would take them in

the only animal i'm currently interested in having put down right now (since it's illegal for me to kill it) is a british short hair that is teasing my cat and and causing cat fights (my cat is purely indoors) she has already had a concussion and hurt her back leg from jumping at the glass then landing wrong. i can't find the owners of it so if i get cat traps off to the pound it goes and hopefully it goes to hell!

 

[FusionMorelia]

i said personallyi hate the word cull!...i mean these are our pets are you going to cull a litter of puppies or kittens because a couple have deformities? if that were the case then i would be inundated with them because i would take them in

i take it you haven't seen what they do to animals that are not cute enough for those chain pet stores?

 

[Defective]

well, i'm just guessing here but kittens are *gulps* are probably fed to 'healthy' snakes, puppies that are the runts and not doing well or are deformed are more than likely drowned by the breeder (even though thats illegal)

 

[cheddah]

i said personallyi hate the word cull!...i mean these are our pets are you going to cull a litter of puppies or kittens because a couple have deformities? if that were the case then i would be inundated with them because i would take them in

the only animal i'm currently interested in having put down right now (since it's illegal for me to kill it) is a british short hair that is teasing my cat and and causing cat fights (my cat is purely indoors) she has already had a concussion and hurt her back leg from jumping at the glass then landing wrong. i can't find the owners of it so if i get cat traps off to the pound it goes and hopefully it goes to hell!

why would you want to be inundated with animals that may suffer? respect says put to sleep and or respect others choice to do so.
then you want an animal put down for teasing/fighting with your cat????
isnt that what cats do, scrap, kill, CULL, destroy anything they can, or just catch it, chuck it up in the air then leave it half dead.
so your happy to kill that cat for well being a cat, but not an animal with defect that may cause it to suffer throughout its entire life, possibly breed and cause trouble to an entire species....come on mate, less emotions more common sense.

 

[Defective]

Ok, if you read the post properly you would have read that my cat is purely an indoors cat meaning she never goes outside!!! this british short hair comes around our place at 5am for the past 6 months teasing the bejezzus out of her and my cat has sustained injuries that have required her to stay at the vets and cost over $200!!

I did the right thing by going and looking, door knocking all day for the owner but couldn't find them so i have every right to trap the cat and hope it is put down. my cat has never had any other issues with any other cat but this one!

I respect others choice to do so but if i can see that an animal has a chance i will give it a chance. I get the fact that breeding snakes that have deformities can be harmful i'm not stupid (not saying anyone has said i am) but i have been given an opportunity to nurse a kitten on the brink of death and missing half its tail and a back leg because of a dog, and it survived and now is with a loving family. so to me, anything is possible. i could have got it put down but the vet i saw had the same compassion i did and gave it a chance.

when common sense is needed i'll use it but sometimes emotion is just that more powerful and instictive.

if a snake was missing half its tail, and had a kink, i'd take it and give it the best life i knew how! i wouldn't breed it i wouldn't risk it. i guess it just stems from the fact that i myself have quite a few disabilities and other than family no one has given me a chance so i find solace in animals healthy or disabled!

 

[cheddah]

I did see you mentioned your cat is indoors. Surely you can control it, stop it from nutting out? anyway going off topic..

I just found it interesting the word cull seemed to strike a nerve with you, but you seemed happy to kill that cat for esentially just doing what they do. Then on the other hand you keep alive a cat on the brink of death after a dog attack. Id put that to sleep on first sight but thats just me.

Some people are against certain live foods being used. IMO if its captive bred what ever it is we should respect that breeders have the full right to cull feed do what they want, as long as its done for what they beleave to be for the greater good.

 

[Defective]

I did see you mentioned your cat is indoors. Surely you can control it, stop it from nutting out? anyway going off topic..

I just found it interesting the word cull seemed to strike a nerve with you, but you seemed happy to kill that cat for esentially just doing what they do. Then on the other hand you keep alive a cat on the brink of death after a dog attack. Id put that to sleep on first sight but thats just me.

Some people are against certain live foods being used. IMO if its captive bred what ever it is we should respect that breeders have the full right to cull feed do what they want, as long as its done for what they beleave to be for the greater good.

unfortunately no we can't control our cat from spazzing coz it's 4.30-5am when it happens. but i do try.

back on topic: i just find the word creepy and try to avoid using it is all. for certain animals that are a pest or are over populating an area like KI the context in which it's used is ok and i don't mind but i guess it must have also been the day i was having and how i reacted...wasn't a very good day at all.

i can see how a breeder would want only their best to mate and produce and why its so risky for a deformed snake to breed and i'll always respect that just like you would put the kitten down at first sight whereas i gave it a chance... differing of opinions. but that's human nature and my opinion doesn't really count for a whole lot, i was really just voicing how i felt on the topic.

 

[cheddah]

your opinion matters alot, this place is good for voicing our opinions

 

[remington]

First few pages where good now its gone to crap

 

[cheddah]

just delete my imput, my bad. woops but seriously a few on here are sooooo senisitive. discussion is about just that discussion, not talking about the discussion and your opinion on it turning to crap (which comes up every other day from a select few). best to take things on the positive and she be right. hey we may all learn something.

 

[Defective]

seriously a few on here are sooooo senisitive.

Well i'm sooooooooooooo sorry for having emotion and compassion!

discussion is about just that discussion, not talking about the discussion and your opinion on it turning to crap
Opinion:A thought that a person has formed about a topic or issue; To have or express as an opinion

Discussion: A conversation is communication between multiple people. It is a social skill that is not difficult for most individuals. Conversations are the ideal form of communication in some respects, since they allow people with different views on a topic to learn from each other.

an opinion comes into play during a discussion. it gives each person an opportunity to express their thoughts. that is what makes a good discussion, not just views.

 

[Channaz]

I have no problem with culling animals that have deformities. However, the idea of culling a healthy snake because it doesn't fit a plan for a future morph... yes, that is the type of thing that will put me off breeding snakes. Incidentally, I have no idea if this is the norm or otherwise.

 

[Lucas89]

Natures natural selection is survival of the fittest. I think it has become pretty obvious that some people will always feel the need to look after the "runt" but that's not the topic. Deformed, disabled, genetic disorders. Must be eliminated to ensure survival. Cats do it of there own accord (only time I have personally witnessed it). And without culling you end up with polluted gene pools. That leads to the end of a species. The Mule is a great example of that. I whole heartily believe in culling, when desexing ( depending on severity of deformity ) is not viable. I even think we as humans should give it a little more thought.
( just to be clear, would never kill an already living human)

Thank you op for a great thread, and every one for there input. Was great to see the diversity of opinions that make us different people. Made for a great read!

Lucas