interesting..

[Kurto]

Are we talking about captive pets here?

Who here is breeding for the survival of a particular species? Or better yet any Morelia? Apart from the fact that Cheynei & Variegata share identical DNA.

If anything a jungle + darwin albino clutch(s) should keep the price of pure darwin albinos more stable for a few more years. Maybe some good news for people who invested decent $$$$$ a few years ago.

 

[nathancl]

honestly i think people need to get over it. stop wingeing everytime you see hybrids for sale because alot more will be coming just accept it and if you dont like it dont buy them simple.

 

[AUSHERP]

its not that a hard of a concept, if you hybridise sell them as hybrids........ i cant stand those people selling jungles and when you get there its a coastal intergrade, call it what it is! if you lose $50 bucks, deal with it! whats gonna wreck it for the hybrids is people selling them to noobs who are gonna breed em irresponsibly.

 

[Tinky]

Cross breeding makes me sick.

Those perverted people out there crossing Poodles and Labradors to make Labradoodles should be shot. If they could cross a Blue Heeler with a Red Cattle dog to get a purple cattle heeler they probably would.

I mean how stupid are these people. In December my wife bought a Staffie cross Larsa Apso. I told her, you know you have bought a Statue, (I kid you not, her name is Gracie)

Given half a chance these genetic terrorists would literally cross Kangaroos with Sheep, Flamingos with Zebras, and Whales with Fleas.

Won’t somebody think of the children. . .

 

[Perko]

Pet trade people, your not saving the world ( thank god )

 

[Colin]

Who here is breeding for the survival of a particular species? Or better yet any Morelia? Apart from the fact that Cheynei & Variegata share identical DNA.

yes kurto this is what I've been told. that DNA studies of the morelia group uncovered there were only three distinct DNA found in morelia - being imbricata, bredli and the rest.. so just as current sub species groups classified as for example cheynei have different coloured, patterned and sized locality variations such as what we refer to as palmerstons, julattens, athertons etc it doesnt seem too big a leap to have the idea that this main morelia group sharing the same DNA could just be locality variations of the one DNA group morelia spilota (carpet) ?

who knows? I'll leave it up to the experts and just enjoy keeping and breeding my own animals.

 

[ntvnm]

first things first...those hybrid hets havnt sold for some time...the add has been renewed multiple times.


ok...why isnt locality crossing considered hybridizing? some of these locality crosses wouldnt accure in the wild.unless you collected YOUR animals from the wild they could be crosses...so most of YOU could already be ''hybrid'' breeders and not even know about it...

so basically you all are happy aslong as you 'think' your breeding pure? when in fact you could actually be breeding crosses and selling them as pure? how would you know unless you collected them from the wild?

you dont know 100%?...its funny because half the animals these ''purists'' have are crosses...yet they jump up and down saying keep it pure ect.

im a 'purist' by the way. you can breed stunning animals from pure stock...there is no need to cross.

hey Kreft...could we see some hybrids that you actually bred? preferably without the jag gene.
it would make my day if you could show us some clutch pics aswell..... that would be great.

Cheers

 

[AUSHERP]

many of the pure lines you are talking about NTVNM were collected from the wild and have been line bred, all the snakes had to come from the wild at some point, why is it so unlikely that these bloodlines have been kept pure, i know many people who are the original collectors of their snakes so can guarantee that these are the locality.

 

[AUSHERP]

though i do see where you are coming from, people usually dont label a line unless they know for sure (unless they are stupid)

 

[itbites]

As I've said through out the whole thread & as a personal opinion as well..

Each & everyone to their own, I am not about to bad mouth or frown upon those who think differently.

I just don't feel that hybrids are better than pure locale animals.

Yes I know you can't be sure if what you keep is in fact pure locale specific etc...

Isn't that only going to get worse as the hobby progresses & more hybrids/crosses are produced?

It may be an issue if down the track things get that mixed up we end up with no pure critters left.

Not being over dramatic but it wasn't that long ago that the masses were against crossing species/ sub species

now it seems to be the other way around with a few popular sellers/traders endorsing it the rest follow suit.

Again it's just my thoughts on the subject...

 

[ntvnm]

Ausherp - orginal collectors?? every one buys directly from them dont they?...


itbites - i still dont get it...you dont like hybrids,
but you are willing to breed animals that could be anything.
so aslong as you 'think' you are breeding pure...it dosnt matter?
so its ok for hybrids to be bred unintentually ,but not intenually?

 

[Waterrat]

ok...why isnt locality crossing considered hybridizing?

No, it's not. You have to brush up on terminology. Hybridization is crossing two animals with different DNA, i.e. different species. Subspecies and locality morphs have the same DNA.

 

[ntvnm]

so waterrat....most of subspecies cant be seperated by a dna test...does this mean breeding them would not create a hybrid?

 

[Waterrat]

so waterrat....most of subspecies cant be seperated by a dna test...does this mean breeding them would not create a hybrid?

Which subspecies? If subsepcies have the same DNA, as they have, then crossing specimens of those subspecies from different localities would not create hybrids. The result phenotypes may look different but they will be still the same subspecies, not hybrids. I hope it makes sense.

 

[Southside Morelia]

Does make sense M and has been said many times, and I can't understand why people don't get it!! lol
The Ad has been going for ages..and I don't personally think that the animals will be any different than Albino Darwins and may keep the price of them, stable as mentioned, which is a good thing.
You may get a snappy albino....what a joy.....:lol:
It is the way of the hobby and I grasp that and am looking forward to some really smick looking animals, BUT there is always a place for the PURE ones too guys.... just face the facts and accept it! A PLACE FOR BOTH...

 

[sandswimmer]

jag isnt a hybrid mate

hybrids can have all sorts of genetic defects and if one accidentally or purposefully gets released into the wild and it can affect the health of the local population. the fact is, if you liked snakes, you would like them for what they are and shouldnt try to play god. having said that. where would you draw the line at playing god?

Firstly, show me a pure jag and I will buy you dinner.
Secondly, hybridising does not cause genetic defects. Hybridising broadens the gene pool, thus increasing genetic fitness. It is line and inbreeding that causes genetic defects. Look at the example of cross-bred and pure bred dogs....pure, line-bred dogs have all sorts of genetic problems, while your average mongrel will live forever.
"Hybrid vigour"

 

[krefft]

I'm not sure how the quote above got attributed to me but I didn't write it.

 

[Tinky]

Why did my opinion get moderated.

Do we need to have serious and nonserious threads.

My points were valid, even if raised in a non conventional manner. Postulating on degrees of variation deserves ridicule.

Whoever removed my comments, can you please PM me for an indepth discussion on the validity of taking the piss.

I removed them being "chit chat" and not really contributing to the topic or discussion at all in my opinion. Colin

If you cross a Rainbow Serpent with a Death adder, do you get a Colorful Death ?

 

[syeph8]

i give up, you win, do whatever you like without precaution. realease as many of your ugliest mongrels into the wild as you like to strengthen our native genetics if you think its the right thing to do. go ahead and release exotic species while you're at it. chop down a couple of trees too. then you'll be able to tell your kids what australias animals and ecosystem was like when you were a kid. as i assume you parents told you, as my parents have told me how many animals they used to see they are now either rare and endangered or extinct because of people who supposedly know what they're doing. ill just be sure to take photos.

 

[Colin]

If subsepcies have the same DNA, as they have, then crossing specimens of those subspecies from different localities would not create hybrids. The result phenotypes may look different but they will be still the same subspecies, not hybrids. I hope it makes sense.

makes perfect sense to me michael and so crossing a jungle with a darwin would not be making a hybrid because they both share the same DNA.