One for the Purists

[Ramsayi]

I hate to break it to some of you but most captive pythons in Australia come from few founder animals that have all been crossed with each other. There are very few pure bred locality animals. In the old days, if you could get two carpets of different sexes you put them together no matter where they came from. If they came out looking like a coastal you called them a coastal and if they came out looking like a jungle you called them a jungle. Captive animals are just a big mish mash of different pythons which come from wild populations that can't be definitively defined anyway

Seriously where did you get that from? Lots of breeders keep locality pure stuff and are not interested in crosses at all.To state most captive bred pythons are crosses is totally incorrect.

 

[Hamalicious]

I hate to break it to some of you but most captive pythons in Australia come from few founder animals that have all been crossed with each other. There are very few pure bred locality animals. In the old days, if you could get two carpets of different sexes you put them together no matter where they came from. If they came out looking like a coastal you called them a coastal and if they came out looking like a jungle you called them a jungle. Captive animals are just a big mish mash of different pythons which come from wild populations that can't be definitively defined anyway

Sorry but i think this is a load of rubbish. Sure there would be a lot of cross bred localities out there but to say that MOST captive bred Morelias are cross bred is just crap. Do you really think that our captive bred pythons are a mix of Bredli's, Jungles, Darwins, Coastals and MDs....?

 

[Hamalicious]

Unfortunately, the American way of Herping is to cross breed and create new morphs, with little to no interest in pure breeding. (not saying all American are like this, just a large proportion) So no matter what we say, i cant see it making a difference. If it was me, id just give them a hard time about ruining perfectly good animals, which is basically what they are doing. It probably wont stop them, but at least you can vent your frustration a bit haha.

 

[Bart70]

I am far from an expert on reptile genetics, but have some understanding of feline genetics due to some work I undertook some years ago at building genetic strength, as well as elimination of a recessive gene for a health issue in a particular breed that had a smallish gene pool.

Outcrossing to 'moggies' was permitted in this particular breed providing it was part of an outcross program and the progeny were registered as the appropriate level of outcross (unlike snakes which are not pedigreed nor registered).

So, in the feline world - if you crossed Breed X with a moggie, you got offspring that looked like moggies. If you then crossed one of these back to a Breed X, you got a percentage of animals that looked like moggies, and a percentage that carried the traits and appearance of Breed X. I do know there were some traits of Breed X that were recessive and may be the key to this (it was a while ago and my memory is not that great when trying to work out the minor details).

Now I am no expert in snake genetics, but if the same genetic theory applied, a Diamond X Bredli would produce a 'cross breed' looking snake. Putting this progeny back to either a Bredli or Diamond would produce a percentage of 'cross bred' looking animals and a percentage that would look like either Diamonds or Bredli (depending on which breed was used back to the crossed progeny).

I stress again, my experience is in felines and a breed that carries a lot of recessive traits so am happy to stand corrected if this does not apply to snakes. I sometimes have trouble understanding snake breeding/genetics after having some experience with pedigreed animals where you know the traits/qualities of the animals behind the scenes by examining the pedigree for 5 or 6 generations.

 

[The_Geeza]

I hate to break it to some of you but most captive pythons in Australia come from few founder animals that have all been crossed with each other. There are very few pure bred locality animals. In the old days, if you could get two carpets of different sexes you put them together no matter where they came from. If they came out looking like a coastal you called them a coastal and if they came out looking like a jungle you called them a jungle. Captive animals are just a big mish mash of different pythons which come from wild populations that can't be definitively defined anyway

Your user name says it all.... Best option for u is to not comment on this thread

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I hate to break it to some of you but most captive pythons in Australia come from few founder animals that have all been crossed with each other. There are very few pure bred locality animals. In the old days, if you could get two carpets of different sexes you put them together no matter where they came from. If they came out looking like a coastal you called them a coastal and if they came out looking like a jungle you called them a jungle. Captive animals are just a big mish mash of different pythons which come from wild populations that can't be definitively defined anyway

I hate to break it to you but it appears you have been mixing with the wrong crowd, nearly all my reptile buddys only keep and breed pure Australian pythons with known locale lineage.

 

[Snowman]

I hate to break it to some of you but most captive pythons in Australia come from few founder animals that have all been crossed with each other. There are very few pure bred locality animals. In the old days, if you could get two carpets of different sexes you put them together no matter where they came from. If they came out looking like a coastal you called them a coastal and if they came out looking like a jungle you called them a jungle. Captive animals are just a big mish mash of different pythons which come from wild populations that can't be definitively defined anyway

Looks like a contender for the most misinformed post award....

 

[dannydee]

I'm from the UK and hate what goes on here with snake breeding, in particular with carpets and bredli, it's sickeningly similar to the USA. Everything is crossed with everything and it is becoming increasing difficult to source pure bred animals. There is only one place I know of here in the UK where I can get a guaranteed locality coastal. I personally would be concerned if I was an Aussie, but that's maybe just me. This type of breeding is mostly frowned upon just now, but you already have similar breedings going on. It's the way the hobby is now, and I'm convinced it will flood your market as well. Maybe not in the near future but it will!

 

[Stuart]

Lets keep posts away from the personally insulting trend and rather point out supposed error in logic in a more constructive form please.

 

[Shotta]

im okay with hybrids as long as the breeders are honest about what they are selling

 

[Hamalicious]

I'm from the UK and hate what goes on here with snake breeding, in particular with carpets and bredli, it's sickeningly similar to the USA. Everything is crossed with everything and it is becoming increasing difficult to source pure bred animals. There is only one place I know of here in the UK where I can get a guaranteed locality coastal. I personally would be concerned if I was an Aussie, but that's maybe just me. This type of breeding is mostly frowned upon just now, but you already have similar breedings going on. It's the way the hobby is now, and I'm convinced it will flood your market as well. Maybe not in the near future but it will!

We Aussies love our pure breds, there will always be people cross breeding but our hobby will never be over run by them.

 

[The_Geeza]

I'm from the UK and hate what goes on here with snake breeding, in particular with carpets and bredli, it's sickeningly similar to the USA. Everything is crossed with everything and it is becoming increasing difficult to source pure bred animals. There is only one place I know of here in the UK where I can get a guaranteed locality coastal. I personally would be concerned if I was an Aussie, but that's maybe just me. This type of breeding is mostly frowned upon just now, but you already have similar breedings going on. It's the way the hobby is now, and I'm convinced it will flood your market as well. Maybe not in the near future but it will!

G Day Bud.......Looking at the prices in the Uk there still seems to be a market for u guys due to the excessive cross breeding and the PRETTY paterns (people buy them not even knowing where the hell they originate from).over here mate RPM's r already being sold cheap because half the part time breeders dont even know what the hell is in there Jags lol.........there r people here that love jags but they r outwayed by the purists......oposite in the UK and USA due to people just wana nice looking carpet..............RPM's r cheap as chips but y would u get one when IMO an Albino Darwin beats them hand down...and they still hold a high price (they dont twitch or nod there head either lol) SRYYYYYYYYYY couldnt help meself

 

[dannydee]

We Aussies love our pure breds, there will always be people cross breeding but our hobby will never be over run by them.

So did we 15 years ago!

 

[dannydee]

G Day Bud.......Looking at the prices in the Uk there still seems to be a market for u guys due to the excessive cross breeding and the PRETTY paterns (people buy them not even knowing where the hell they originate from).over here mate RPM's r already being sold cheap because half the part time breeders dont even know what the hell is in there Jags lol.........there r people here that love jags but they r outwayed by the purists......oposite in the UK and USA due to people just wana nice looking carpet..............RPM's r cheap as chips but y would u get one when IMO an Albino Darwin beats them hand down...and they still hold a high price (they dont twitch or nod there head either lol) SRYYYYYYYYYY couldnt help meself

Alright buddy,
That's the thing, a lot of people over here don't know any better and support this (in my opinion) awful market.
I've got a plan Pete, just send for me and I'll leave this place behind! Job done!!!

 

[champagne]

I have been told by many reliable sources including john weigel and stone on two separate occasions. for example both stones jungle and caramel lines come from coastal jungle crosses. my father breed reptiles back in the 60's and this was the case... you can deny it all you want but its fact that a lot of the pythons getting around are sub crosses. there is a hand full of pure locality caught stuff but majority aren't I should add that I'm talking about east coast sub species

 

[The_Geeza]

Ok i want to first say i am not encouraging or condoning this behaviour so please do not create a fecal storm of righteous indignation. Ok that out of the way, I play online poker with a bunch of guys from the U.S.A and only recently they have found out i am also interested in herps, and in finding that out i figure they are proud to tell me some of the things they do over there with their snakes or just like to boast, anyway last night i was talking to 1 of them on Skype and he was telling me about a project him and his buddies were into with "AUSSIE" snakes, to start they have gotten hold of a couple of female Bredli so they are going to put a male Diamond to 1 of them and a male coastal to the other and from the progeny of those matings they are hoping to get a male and a female from each and when they are of age and size they will be putting them together ie male from Diamond x Bredli and female from Coastal x Bredlie mated and female from Diamond x Bredli and male from Coastal x Bredli mated then see were they go from there, in their words they reckon they are trying to breed an "Aussie Super Snake" for the U.S herp market. Now i know that these matings have to be wrong on some level but i lack the brain power to be able to tell these guys why it is wrong, so as i said in the beginning i do not want to start a fecal storm with this thread, all i want is intelligent information i can use when next talking to these guys, thanks in advance...............................Ron

Couple weeks ago i was on a Uk site being an x pat....someone was so happy with there Diamond x Bredli X MD x Jungle Jag.......all i mentioned was the different locals and requirements plus i added the neuro(lol) and the (DPS) and i asked if they understood all of this.....BASICLY i got hammered by 2 of the big Morelia breeders in the UK saying i know nothing....1 of them had a user name "Pilbara" so i told them to google locals in OZ!!!!!...i got an infraction for being right but upsetting my fellow Pats..........What a Joke

 

[The_Geeza]

Alright buddy,
That's the thing, a lot of people over here don't know any better and support this (in my opinion) awful market.
I've got a plan Pete, just send for me and I'll leave this place behind! Job done!!!

Told ya before mate u sort your end and your welcome mine...prob even get a job for ya if i ask the right people

 

[someday]

carpets are native to us. but not oversees so i don't see the problem with cross breeds oversees when they aren't native to them. let them ruin there genetics with carpets x boas ect.. Its not our problem.

 

[The_Geeza]

carpets are native to us. but not oversees so i don't see the problem with cross breeds oversees when they aren't native to them. let them ruin there genetics with carpets x boas ect.. Its not our problem.

Principal

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Is cross breeding not outlawed SA and QLD?