One for the Purists

[=bECS=]

I have a question that kind of relates to this.

What are jags put on licence as?
Because we all know they swam across the ocean. I
ts funny how they have the same neuro probs as o/s jags. They arent simply cross breeds from an aussie project, they were illegally imported.

Also our licences have listed species and codes, with all the cross breeding going on here in oz (it happens and theres been plenty of pics on here) how long will it be until a snakes true lineage isnt known and it no longer represents a native type animal?
Will these snakes be legally be able to sold off licence if they are no longer considered a native animal?

How long until people try breeding illegal corns to smaller snake species or young boas to morelia sp to get crazy colors and patterning?

Werent there albinos crossed with chondros?

Where will it end and how will licensing authorities keep up with it all?

 

[The_Geeza]

Guna buy a Jag next week and im not going to rego it......when they come to inspect my collection and they say "y this not registered and where did u get it from " ? im guna answer "NORWAY"

 

[champagne]

the authorities don't have a leg to stand on because the fact that the only Morelia that isn't a sub sp that can be proven by dna is bredli as long as you don't cross with bredli they legally cant do anything..... Parks and wildlife are worried about exactly that parks and wildlife, the more your pet python looks less like a wild snake the easier their job is to prove its not wild caught.

 

[mcloughlin2]

Do you class jags as poor or excellent examples?

I'm not qualified to answer this on anything other then from a visual perspective having never kept or researched them. So in saying that I believe some jags are excellent examples of aussie pythons, not in regards to being a representative of what they look like naturally but more so with what can be achieved with selective breeding.

 

[mcloughlin2]

To throw my two cents on the crossing debate - those who are concerned about the implications arising from these cross breds escaping into the wild and polluting pure bloodlines. You realise the same threat exists by keeping a pure sub species out of its natural habitat (for instance anyone in Sydney with a Jungle python, Murray Darling etc).

 

[Red-Ink]

the authorities don't have a leg to stand on because the fact that the only Morelia sub sp that can be proven by dna is bredli as long as you don't cross with bredli they legally cant do anything..... Parks and wildlife are worried about exactly that parks and wildlife, the more your pet python looks less like a wild snake the easier their job is to prove its not wild caught.

Morelia bredli is not a sub-species, it is a species of Morelia. Same as Morelia viridis or Morelia carinata.

 

[Tobe404]

Is cross breeding not outlawed SA and QLD?

It is, in SA at least, not sure about QLD. Bloke got caught with 20 or so Pythons that were used to cross-breed. Something along those lines anyway.
Cross-bred snakes euthanased | News.com.au

There ya go.

 

[ronhalling]

I completely agree with Ozimid, ok it might not be my business to say anything to these guys about their cross breeding scheme but the "PRINCIPLE" of the whole thing sticks in my craw, and knowing how much so many peeps here in oz almost hero worship the guys in the U.S i would hate to think these guys in the U.S could sway the way Oz breeders did business against "PRINCIPLE"....................................................Ron

 

[champagne]

It is, in SA at least, not sure about QLD. Bloke got caught with 20 or so Pythons that were used to cross-breed. Something along those lines anyway.
Cross-bred snakes euthanased | News.com.au

There ya go.

because they were bredli crosses..... there are plenty of sub sp crosses in SA. there are several websites site even advertising jags. The Environment office in SA believe that jags are a COLOUR MORPHS pure to each sub sp. The first public founding jags have pretty close ties to the SA office so of course they would take that stances on jags.

 

[champagne]

Morelia bredli is not a sub-species, it is a species of Morelia. Same as Morelia viridis or Morelia carinata.

thanks for correcting me I didn't re read it after I posted, thous why not realising I left out two words and you are right gtp and roughies are also in there but I was taking about them as most people don't cross those two species just the same I left out bhp and womas both have been crossed overseas but generally have been here.

 

[Domingos]

I'm from the United States and I adore Aussie reptiles. I currently own two female Womas and two Bearded Dragons. I'm looking for a male next week at our NE Reptile Expo.

It's true that our Australian Python lines (Woma localities and carpets especially) are muddied by locality. We do not really have locality specific Womas for sale here. However, aside from creating visual morphs from same species (for example, ball python, boa constrictor, and corn snake morphs), I see very little inter-species breeding on forums, expos, and from breeders here. It's not as prevalent as many may believe. The breeders and expo personalities I associate with find it unfavorable. I'm sure if a census was taken on who cross breeds, the percentages will be very low. In addition, some snake owners tend to have lots of bark, but not much bite...meaning its in their plans, but they never go through it.

 

[Domingos]

carpets are native to us. but not oversees so i don't see the problem with cross breeds oversees when they aren't native to them. let them ruin there genetics with carpets x boas ect.. Its not our problem.

Can't breed a carpet and boa... But I think you meant this in jest.

 

[salebrosus]

Ok i want to first say i am not encouraging or condoning this behaviour so please do not create a fecal storm of righteous indignation. Ok that out of the way, I play online poker with a bunch of guys from the U.S.A and only recently they have found out i am also interested in herps, and in finding that out i figure they are proud to tell me some of the things they do over there with their snakes or just like to boast, anyway last night i was talking to 1 of them on Skype and he was telling me about a project him and his buddies were into with "AUSSIE" snakes, to start they have gotten hold of a couple of female Bredli so they are going to put a male Diamond to 1 of them and a male coastal to the other and from the progeny of those matings they are hoping to get a male and a female from each and when they are of age and size they will be putting them together ie male from Diamond x Bredli and female from Coastal x Bredlie mated and female from Diamond x Bredli and male from Coastal x Bredli mated then see were they go from there, in their words they reckon they are trying to breed an "Aussie Super Snake" for the U.S herp market. Now i know that these matings have to be wrong on some level but i lack the brain power to be able to tell these guys why it is wrong, so as i said in the beginning i do not want to start a fecal storm with this thread, all i want is intelligent information i can use when next talking to these guys, thanks in advance...............................Ron

You can always state to them that these animals would not come into contact with each other in the wild. As a keeper of all the species you mentioned, i keep my Diamonds in completely different conditions to that of my Bredls. So if you cross breed what happens to the offspring? Are they susceptible to heat and prefer cooler temps of a diamond? Potential for Diamond Python Syndrome? etc.

As for the arguments over the previous four pages, i am going to sit on the fence. I am pretty fussy about making sure my animals are locality bred and 'pure' is what does it for me. However, animals i have bought in the past i really have to question their background. I bought a Jungle sometime ago from Victoria. Nice pics, hey everything looks good in a photo..... But i had doubts the moment i picked up the heavy box from AAE. My 'pure' jungle that arrived was 8ft, weighs 7kg and with a head bigger than most coastals. Average pictures of the animal looked like a Jungle but seeing it in person is something different altogether. So what do i do with it? Don't want to breed it because its a mongrel but it is a beautiful animal. I know plenty who like pure/line bred/locality bred animals. I also know plenty who like their animals muddied.

 

[andynic07]

You can always state to them that these animals would not come into contact with each other in the wild. As a keeper of all the species you mentioned, i keep my Diamonds in completely different conditions to that of my Bredls. So if you cross breed what happens to the offspring? Are they susceptible to heat and prefer cooler temps of a diamond? Potential for Diamond Python Syndrome? etc.

As for the arguments over the previous four pages, i am going to sit on the fence. I am pretty fussy about making sure my animals are locality bred and 'pure' is what does it for me. However, animals i have bought in the past i really have to question their background. I bought a Jungle sometime ago from Victoria. Nice pics, hey everything looks good in a photo..... But i had doubts the moment i picked up the heavy box from AAE. My 'pure' jungle that arrived was 8ft, weighs 7kg and with a head bigger than most coastals. Average pictures of the animal looked like a Jungle but seeing it in person is something different altogether. So what do i do with it? Don't want to breed it because its a mongrel but it is a beautiful animal. I know plenty who like pure/line bred/locality bred animals. I also know plenty who like their animals muddied.

We already have Diamond x Jungle here, do these pythons suffer Diamond syndrome?

 

[champagne]

just because a snake lives in an environment that reaches 35/40 deg doesn't mean they need it.... some forms of rattle snake live where it gets 6ft of snow each year so does this mean you have to fill their enclosure full of snow once a year for them to survive???

 

[ronhalling]

This has been a very lively and informative thread i first started just so i had ammo to use in my arguement against muddied genes with these good ole boys from the US, I thank all who have contributed and also opened my eyes to a few things i did not think about, "WELL DONE APS WELL DONE" just shows you can still teach an old dog some new tricks++++++++++1...................................Ron

 

[PilbaraPythons]

The Environment office in SA believe that jags are a COLOUR MORPHS pure to each sub sp. The first public founding jags have pretty close ties to the SA office so of course they would take that stances on jags.

Oh my, just what are you suggesting? lol