Who uses Skarffing?

[-Peter]

I agree, I just think it's too big a jump to make to assume premature deaths in adult snakes is due to what could be deemed by some overfeeding when young.

So you can prejudge a study on its short term merits and include presumption and anecdote but Rob can't.

Rob's anecdotal response while not necessarily correct or incorrect is still as valid at present until a long term control study has been undertaken. You really do take your self too seriously sometimes boa.

Rob, you really do take boa too seriously sometimes.

Apart from that this a very interesting study and as I understand only the initial step in an ongoing project.

 

[Retic]

I would still like to hear why people have voted one way or another, experience, peer pressure or whatever.

 

[Gecko_ProCs]

As an outsider looking in i can see both sides.

Breeders prefer to get their snakes ready to breed as soon as possible and increase in food makes that happen so it works for them.

Where as you average person just after a pet needs not to worry about maturing the snake faster so feeds are normal.

I guess it just depends on what you keep your animals for.

and maybe "over feeding" when young does cause premature death, failed breeding and so on and maybe it doesn't, the fact is no-ones been able to really study the animals long enough to prove either one right or wrong.

So to me, it seem's it all comes down to what you intend to keep the animal for, wheather it be for breeding or just as a life long pet and interest.

and thats my 2 cents...
Camo.

 

[Minka]

Personally i used to feed on the more conservative side largely due to the popluar culture that was expressed by most with many years experiance that snakes should be grown slower. Especially species of the Morelia genus which were said to not be able to tolerate such larger growth 'spurts'. And also Aspidites which are well noted for there inability to cope with high fat levels in their diet. After much discussion with Hazzard and reviewing his findings in relation to his work with Children's Pythons and of which it is based upon FACT AND SCIENCE i have now started to re-think what was drummed into almost every paper written about snakes and their metabolisms and also their feeding patterns. As such i have now increased most of my animals feed intake. But i am of course still wary as these are new findings and as such have not been proven over the course of many years, so i will be hesitant to push such animals like chondros and aspidites, and for that matter dont think i ever would. But largely YES i have increased feed intake to most of my animals UNDER 18 MONTHS of age. If what Hazzard and his team are putting forward is proven then i think it will still be resisted by some, as change no doubt is usually very hard to accept. I still find myself umming and aarring over the issue. But i will monitor my animals and do what i think is best for them as their keeper. Its early days yet but i feel we are only beginning to understand how our direct actions are impacting our herps. Time will tell.

 

[slacker]

I've always been of the opinion that there's no harm in power-feeding juvies. I can't see any logical reason why this would have a negative impact on the python's long-term health, when the food goes into growth, rather than girth (and thus excess fat).

Maybe some day someone will do a long-term study proving (or disproving) this, but until that day I'll operate on what my logic tells me... and my logic tells me that if it's all going into growth, it just means they'll grow faster.

 

[butters]

More theories

What is the average reproductive life of some of these pythons?

During "feast"cycles pythons may achieve sexual maturity at a younger age but what is the reproductive life of these pythons? Does it differ to those that have taken considerably longer to reach sexual maturity? Sure the total number of years alive may differ (if you take the anecdotal comments as true) but does it make any difference to the reproductive capacity of the animal? Is there a difference in the number of offspring produced over the animals life? I don't mean per clutch but as a total.

If there is no difference then to the pythons it may be irrelevant just how many actual years they live. After all their main aim in life is to procreate. If they can produce just as many offspring sooner and in a shorter period of time then for them their job is done and as efficiently as possible.

If nothing else, to me, it shows an amazing ability to adapt to differences infood availability and make the most of it no matter the conditions.

Cheers Andrew

 

[Chris1]

no chance, i cant imagine its good for them long term and i want my little man to live with me for as long as snakely possible!!

hes growing well on about 10% of his body weight every 3-4 weeks.

 

[wokka]

I suspect if comparisons were done it would show captive well fed pythons out live wild "naturally 'fed pythons. Feeding has nothing to do with it, wild pythons surcomb to die from causes other than feeding.
Similiarly "wild Fed pythons probably get less diseases than captive well fed pythond. Again the feed has nothing to do with it . Its just that captive live longer with less predsitors etc.
You can make figuresay what you want, or even easier , anecdotal evidence.

 

[888lowndes888]

In response to boa wanting answers as to why people chose to vote one way or the other. I personally don't skarff or powerfeed or whatever it is now called simply because at the moment I have 1 hatchie and don't intend to breed so am in no rush for her to mature. I also don't know enough about the technique to comment on whether is a good or bad thing.

 

[Australis]

I voted non-skarrf..

Im interested if this research will show any difference between the sexes with how they cope with high food intake.

I would be a little worried though if any findings from research on a single species or genus was seen as evidence
for all species of python.

Matt

 

[hazzard]

totally agree Australis, to answer your question at this stage there was no significant difference between sexes in either treatment group, secondly it needs to be done with all python genus's (make a great PHD anyone) to properly get a handle on things.

Cheers!

 

[$NaKe PiMp]

skaarff 4 LIFE

 

[bigguy]

I was probably the first keeper to use the high food method with young snakes. Does it have long term health effects on your snakes, well after 20 years I am still waiting to see.

As far as I am aware my snakes have bred longer than just about most keepers in Australia, some 15 years straight . Shane Scarf who has been using my method for over 10 years breds all his snakes annually and has some of the healthiest snakes in Australia.

People are always quick to critisize keeping methods other keepers use. Yet they have never tried it and have nothing to base their facts on except what they want to believe. The only high speed growth rate that did have health problems were the people using Mutton Bird Oil. There would be very few of these snakes alive when it was the rage in Qld some 14 years ago.

For years I was told my methods were unhealthy and caused early death of snakes from people who had never even tried it. But nature uses my method will no ill effects(Fogg Dam Water Pythons for example) and now it has been scientifically tested which backs my method 100%. As for the long term effects, there would not be 20 people in this country who have kept as long as me, and none who has bred the numbers I have, and I am still waiting for these ill effects to appear.

 

[itbites]

I voted no scarffing...I don't think getting a python to adult size in a couple of years is healthy JMO

 

[euan]

Mutton bird oil problems, obesity ??? I guess that was started by me when I brought it back from Bruce Munday Please fill me in what happened after I left. PM no problem.
I have beleived in "skarfing" for as long as I can remember, as long as it is done in the growth phase. If it is carried on into adulthood/maturity it leads to obesity.
It is common sense in a way if an animal if given adequate nutrition it will grow optimally, if "overfed" it will become obese.
When an animal is young it's metabolism tends to be higher, as it ages it's metabolism slows. Growth and all that.
Feed more when young, less when older.
All relative to the percentage of feed compared to body weight.
My 2cents

 

[Vincent]

Lets get rid of the term skaarfing for a start.

Absolutley. As Bob has said, people have been raising their animals this way for decades before Skaarf began keeping snakes.

 

[Retic]

Very interesting Bob, I have no problem with people choosing not to do it but it seems to be pretty clear that snakes don't seem to suffer any ill affects as long as (has been stated several times) it is applied to young snakes and not adults.
The thing I have found after speaking to a lot of people over the years is that don't want to put their hands up in favour of something viewed by some as controversial for fear of getting a bad name.

 

[Southside Morelia]

So, what frequency of feeding would be interpreted as skarrfing? I hate that word! lol
I feed my young ones every 5 days, yearlings to adults 7 days and older snakes once or twice a month.
Interested to know!
Cheers
Scott.

 

[Retic]

Yes good question Scott and one I was going to ask earlier but forgot I feed mine frequently but not large meals so I by no means powerfeed. I think your regime sounds about spot on, what we should remember is that it isn't only frequency but the amount of food given.

 

[Southside Morelia]

Yes good question Scott and one I was going to ask earlier but forgot I feed mine frequently but not large meals so I by no means powerfeed. I think your regime sounds about spot on, what we should remember is that it isn't only frequency but the amount of food given.

LOL thanks mate, I beat you to it...Yeah, I agree Ash, the feed I offer is proportional to the animal, which I guess is common sense though, but is skaarfing multiple feeds at one session?.