Who uses Skarffing?

[hawkesbury reptiles]

Great info guys!!
Hazz, its great to have proven facts on this subject, I have been told so many different things over the years and actually having the facts just backs up all the observations and different things I have been told by numerous people......

At least now I feel I'm on the right track.

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

Glad to see this thread is still going. Is there a definition for skarffing? Irregardless of the derogatory nature of the name, what constitutes "power feeding", "Pumping up", etc". I am curious as I have a cross section of species and would love to hear from the more experienced keepers on this controversial subject.

 

[hawkesbury reptiles]

Glad to see this thread is still going. Is there a definition for skarffing? Irregardless of the derogatory nature of the name, what constitutes "power feeding", "Pumping up", etc". I am curious as I have a cross section of species and would love to hear from the more experienced keepers on this controversial subject.

This would be great...maybe someone could explain it simply, say, use an example such as:
1 month old carpet hatchie...how many pinkies per week....

I know any examples of numbers per week etc would be a very rough guide only but it would give people a bit of an idea.

 

[cobrajet]

Out of all of this thread, no-one has said how much is too much.
How much do you feed a snake?
Put a thread up and you will get 10 different answers of 9 people.
I was told recently that feed your snake when it is hungry, so I asked how do you know when it is hungry? With that I was told that when they are out and active.
I have a 18 month old bredli that i was feeding every 5 days, Then ibacked off now to every 7 days. Now I am probally going to get shot for 'over feeding' the bredli, but it is when it is hungry.
In this thread there was a quote that snakes that have been found in the wild have only got about 5% of food in there bellies, with the info that i was given, don't snakes only come out when they are hungry, so most snakes found would oly have 5% in the stomachs.
Every one has got different opinions on how to do everything, not just about snakes.
Instead of critisizing what others are doing, just make sure you are doing whats right.

 

[JasonL]

I feed my new hatchies small feeds every second third day till they have at least doubled in size, then increase the size of the food and feed twice weekly, when the snake is 3/4 size I cut it back according to the weight of the snake, adults only get fed when they need it, not on any timed schedule. With all my herps, I control the feeding by controlling the heating, northern Sp get heated and fed well, southern sp's get plenty of cold days so they won't eat.

 

[Vincent]

Lets get rid of the term skaarfing for a start.

What about "Lukeing"? He's the master of it. Best i've seen.

 

[hazzard]

What about "Lukeing"? He's the master of it. Best i've seen.

Sounds good, but he reckons your the master!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hazzard]

Out of all of this thread, no-one has said how much is too much.
How much do you feed a snake?
Put a thread up and you will get 10 different answers of 9 people.
I was told recently that feed your snake when it is hungry, so I asked how do you know when it is hungry? With that I was told that when they are out and active.
I have a 18 month old bredli that i was feeding every 5 days, Then ibacked off now to every 7 days. Now I am probally going to get shot for 'over feeding' the bredli, but it is when it is hungry.
In this thread there was a quote that snakes that have been found in the wild have only got about 5% of food in there bellies, with the info that i was given, don't snakes only come out when they are hungry, so most snakes found would oly have 5% in the stomachs.
Every one has got different opinions on how to do everything, not just about snakes.
Instead of critisizing what others are doing, just make sure you are doing whats right.

No-one knows how much is too much this is the whole point of the research projects going on. Nearly all that is out there is based on keepers observations not statistics. We still don't have a definitive answer on what you seek, but the results that are being churned out create interesting debate and hopefully increase our understanding.

What it showed was that the Childrens pythons in the high feeding treatment self regulated their intake! So do they know when enough is enough!

 

[Vincent]

Sounds good, but he reckons your the master!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do my best, Hazz , but i'm not in his league.

 

[hawkesbury reptiles]

Thanks jason,
thats a bit clearer.....I follow the same sort of regime for mine as well.

 

[dickyknee]

What about "Lukeing"? He's the master of it. Best i've seen.

I"d agree with that

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

Basically in a nutshell the statistically strong sample size indicated that in the trial period (so far) that it was not possible to overfeed childrens pythons and that they were to the larger part self regulating in feed intake! The 30% group animals as a whole self regulated their intake to 16% across the trial period they could not sustain the high rate!

Also metabolic efficiency was unchanged for either treatment group (meaning the make the most of what they eat)

Pin head syndrome does not exist (statistically large sample group)

Growth rates of the different fed groups were remarkably different!

Sex had no effect!

The problem with this whole debate is that is based largely on no factual information! Our trials aim to help the understanding of these issues at a whole! Results i beleive will be uploaded shortly and you can interpret for yourselves! We are not biased in anyway in this trial!

Granted this was a study based on the intake of childrens, would there be a concensus that, pythons as a rule (excluding BHPs which seem to have no problems eating themselves to an early grave) have the "sense" to quit eating, ie: 16%, when they have had enough? By enough I mean a sufficient quantity of food to process efficiently? I mean, outside of the obviously overly human influenced domestic animals like cats and dogs (and humans), not a lot of animals eat themselves to obesity. Would it appear that young pythons know when to quit eating prior to the point that over eating would cause obesity? I appreciate that this Q is long winded and possibly drunk sounding (which it is) but my minimal experience in this field would indicate that if environmental factors such as temps (my coastal couldn't be less interested in food at the moment and she used to smash anything put in front of her), has anyone with years and years of experience noticed that young pythons know when "enough is enough" and lived to tell the tale (the snake i mean)?

 

[hazzard]

Granted this was a study based on the intake of childrens, would there be a concensus that, pythons as a rule (excluding BHPs which seem to have no problems eating themselves to an early grave) have the "sense" to quit eating, ie: 16%, when they have had enough? By enough I mean a sufficient quantity of food to process efficiently? I mean, outside of the obviously overly human influenced domestic animals like cats and dogs (and humans), not a lot of animals eat themselves to obesity. Would it appear that young pythons know when to quit eating prior to the point that over eating would cause obesity? I appreciate that this Q is long winded and possibly drunk sounding (which it is) but my minimal experience in this field would indicate that if environmental factors such as temps (my coastal couldn't be less interested in food at the moment and she used to smash anything put in front of her), has anyone with years and years of experience noticed that young pythons know when "enough is enough" and lived to tell the tale (the snake i mean)?

It's impossible to say at this stage conclusively. We are too quick to accept findings based on (n=1). It needs to be proven statistically to carry weight which is what we are attempting to do. Will they keep self regulating beyond maturity? Hopefully we will test this! The majority of the prey items fed when juveniles goes into pure growth so it is reasonable to assume as growth slows most likely feeding at a high rate would cause weight problems (like in most animals).

As for pythons in general, that would be a bold statement to make at this stage. If we do this with morelia and get the same result it would probably be more safe to assume this, but who knows!

 

[dickyknee]

As for pythons in general, that would be a bold statement to make at this stage. If we do this with morelia and get the same result it would probably be more safe to assume this, but who knows!

Hazzard will this study be done with Morelia ?

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

It's impossible to say at this stage conclusively. We are too quick to accept findings based on (n=1). It needs to be proven statistically to carry weight which is what we are attempting to do. Will they keep self regulating beyond maturity? Hopefully we will test this! The majority of the prey items fed when juveniles goes into pure growth so it is reasonable to assume as growth slows most likely feeding at a high rate would cause weight problems (like in most animals).

As for pythons in general, that would be a bold statement to make at this stage. If we do this with morelia and get the same result it would probably be more safe to assume this, but who knows!

Cool! Thanks Hazz! I was very interested in this answer as you appear to have put some effort into this study. IMO many animals have the ability to load up on calories as juvies( mum's milk, etc...) to achieve rediculous growth rates in the early stages. Unless many trials had been attempted (with other animals than mine) I would be hesitant to allow mature snakes to go "hog wild" on the food, but for now, I think my baby biters can keep eating once a week!

 

[hazzard]

Hazzard will this study be done with Morelia ?

Well it's in the planning phase, but largely depends on research funding! Once we publish a bit of this information our chances become somewhat enhanced!

 

[cement]

Good luck with the research Hazz, it is a topic that many people (new to snakes), question.

I don't know whether what I feed would be termed skarffing or not.
I do tend to pump feed the little fellas because it seems to work. With a clean environment and fresh water and good hygiene, they just grow so fast. If they are hungry they get fed. Interestingly my spotteds are the most diverse in their feeding habits.

My opinion is that fast growth and weight gain for the first two or three years is healthy and shows an animals willingness to survive and procreate. There are lots of other factors but thats my opinion in a nutshell.

I wonder what species the fastest growing hatchie belongs to. I know for a fact that Bhps can certainly take off.

cheers