Breeding Dead Leucys

[saximus]

A post in another thread got me thinking about this and I thought it might be interesting to find out opinions on the subject.
A lot of the time when relative newbies ask about Jag breeding, they are warned against breeding Jag pairs as probability says about a quarter of the clutch are doomed to never make it out of the egg. However, if you are breeding Jags, you obviously want Jag babies and any Sibs you get from a pairing are generally "unwanted". So wouldn't it make more sense for the prospective breeder to try to reduce the probability of getting unwanted animals? Even many of the Jag haters will admit they hate Sibs because they are "mongrel crosses".
Obviously, the other side of the coin is the animal welfare aspect though. Do Leucys suffer before they die? Can an unborn snake suffer at all? Or is it simply "wrong" to deliberately breed something that is going to die before taking its first breath?

 

[andynic07]

A post in another thread got me thinking about this and I thought it might be interesting to find out opinions on the subject.
A lot of the time when relative newbies ask about Jag breeding, they are warned against breeding Jag pairs as probability says about a quarter of the clutch are doomed to never make it out of the egg. However, if you are breeding Jags, you obviously want Jag babies and any Sibs you get from a pairing are generally "unwanted". So wouldn't it make more sense for the prospective breeder to try to reduce the probability of getting unwanted animals? Even many of the Jag haters will admit they hate Sibs because they are "mongrel crosses".
Obviously, the other side of the coin is the animal welfare aspect though. Do Leucys suffer before they die? Can an unborn snake suffer at all? Or is it simply "wrong" to deliberately breed something that is going to die before taking its first breath?

A Jag sib is not totally unwanted because at this point most breeders use them to pair with a Jag to prevent what you are talking about. The other point that could be looked at is it worth trying for the reason that one may survive.

 

[RedFox]

Breeding jag to jag doesn't increase the amount of jag hatchies. You would still get around 50% all it does is reduce the amount of jag sibs that end up in the freezer.

While I agree some sibs are bred back to jags a good amount of jags go over pures eg. Jungle jag over a jungle or in another post a coastal jag over a coastal. So where do the sibs go? Some get sold others seem to just disappear.

As for leucys overseas a lot of people have bred jag to jag with no success. I'm not saying there will never be a viable one but based on previous results it is highly unlikely.

 

[Jacknife]

I'm slightly opposed to Jags, but they're here and they will be bred, so no point arguing against it.
And I love the two jag sibs that I own.

 

[KaotikJezta]

If the leucy gene is actually a lethal gene there will never be a viable one unless that gene somehow mutates, that's the point of lethal genes. They kill in embryo ensuring the gene isn't passed on.

 

[Tesla]

If the leucy gene is actually a lethal gene there will never be a viable one unless that gene somehow mutates, that's the point of lethal genes. They kill in embryo ensuring the gene isn't passed on.

Well that's not true considering there have been Leathal Lucies which have lived for a few minutes out of the egg.

 

[KaotikJezta]

Well that's not true considering there have been Leathal Lucies which have lived for a few minutes out of the egg.

Technically a lethal gene causes death prior to an organism being able to reproduce but it usually occurs in the embryonic stage.

 

[andynic07]

Technically a lethal gene causes death prior to an organism being able to reproduce but it usually occurs in the embryonic stage.

Can there not be a slight variation of the gene that lets one survive but still be enough like a leucy be called one?

 

[KaotikJezta]

Can there not be a slight variation of the gene that lets one survive but still be enough like a leucy be called one?

That would be the mutation I mentioned, so yes, it is possible but whether or not it would make it to adulthood and reproduce remains to be seen and it would maybe not be a true leucy. Or it could live years but be sterile.

 

[andynic07]

That would be the mutation I mentioned, so yes, it is possible but whether or not it would make it to adulthood and reproduce remains to be seen and it would maybe not be a true leucy.

If this can happen in other animals and they survive or even other breeds of snakes then why could it not happen with a Jag eventually? I don't really know a lot about genetics or why this gene is lethal and that is why I am asking.

 

[Shotta]

didn't henry from prehistoric pets hatch out a leucy that stayed alive or is the vid rubbish?

 

[Red-Ink]

A post in another thread got me thinking about this and I thought it might be interesting to find out opinions on the subject.
A lot of the time when relative newbies ask about Jag breeding, they are warned against breeding Jag pairs as probability says about a quarter of the clutch are doomed to never make it out of the egg. However, if you are breeding Jags, you obviously want Jag babies and any Sibs you get from a pairing are generally "unwanted". So wouldn't it make more sense for the prospective breeder to try to reduce the probability of getting unwanted animals? Even many of the Jag haters will admit they hate Sibs because they are "mongrel crosses".
Obviously, the other side of the coin is the animal welfare aspect though. Do Leucys suffer before they die? Can an unborn snake suffer at all? Or is it simply "wrong" to deliberately breed something that is going to die before taking its first breath?

Get a coastal jag and breed it with a coastal and you get pure coastal non jags.... no probs then with mongrel sibs

 

[Justdragons]

how a snake lover could breed dead pythons and unwanted pythons for a few nice ones gives me bad feels..

 

[Cold-B-Hearts]

Can there not be a slight variation of the gene that lets one survive but still be enough like a leucy be called one?

how can genes be varied? has cross breeding with womas been tried etc. womas have been crossed with carpets before or would the jag gene not affect the woma python?

 

[Justdragons]

CbH- im not %100 but i think breeding different locals of morelia is legal in some states, i think cross breeding to another genus altogether is illegal. although been done Again more bad feels.

Would someone please think of the children *cries on knees*

 

[Cold-B-Hearts]

CbH- im not %100 but i think breeding different locals of morelia is legal in some states, i think cross breeding to another genus altogether is illegal. although been done Again more bad feels.

Would someone please think of the children *cries on knees*

curious why its illegal? what are all the Frankensteins going to do now!?!?!?!?

 

[andynic07]

how can genes be varied? has cross breeding with womas been tried etc. womas have been crossed with carpets before or would the jag gene not affect the woma python?

I am not really across any of this information and not sure if what I said is possible. It is more of a question for someone than a statement. I think that I may have some late nights of reading coming up.

 

[Xeaal]

It is illegal in Victoria - yet it continues to happen. And when you consider that a percentage of animals born with the jag gene suffer from a neurological defect which is incurable and unpreventable - yet the people who breed jags KNOW this and KEEP doing it - well why would the same people care of some snakes end up dead. Clearly it's just about the dollar value for them and if people object to the moral ethics of this situation then simply don't buy the jags, so there is no longer a market for them.

 

[Tesla]

Get a coastal jag and breed it with a coastal and you get pure coastal non jags.... no probs then with mongrel sibs

Ummmm, no you don't.

 

[Red-Ink]

Ummmm, no you don't.

Why not?