I have been following the whole thread but had nothing to offer on the subject. My apologies if my opinion bothers you.
What should be done with sibs?
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I have been following the whole thread but had nothing to offer on the subject. My apologies if my opinion bothers you.
Rogue5861
Very Well-Known Member
Redfox
With all respect .. Do you really think neuro in jags is not a genetic defect ?
I am not a jag hater as I like pretty snakes but without the neuro issues
Cheers
Sandee
Wish people would get their fact straight before posting. Pretty sure its only around 5% of jags that suffer from neuro so your comment isnt really helpful.
Also im sure most people have heard of DPS, still the cause of this isnt 100% known with only speculation about heating being the cause. Who is to say that this isnt another disorder not unlike the neuro issues very limited jags display.
I dont advocate jag breedering or keeping and am actually quite against it, but this thread isnt about our problems with jags it is about "hybrid sibs" not just "jag sibs".
Rick
lol you comment about people getting their fact right but have no idea what you are posting either.... In what I have seen around 5% are culled because they are to badly effected by neuro problems but all jags have neuro problems most only show little signs when excited, stressed ect. while others that show no sign actually do have neuro problems but it is so little that the owner doesn't notice it. it is genetic and cant be bred out.
Laura yes and I appreciate that you have an opinion on this thread... It's good that everyone says there piece.... I and I'm sure others would find the way you wrote it was aggressive / sarcastic and you could have wrote it slightly different.... I'm even getting to a point in this thread where I feel I might have to say my 2 cents worth but finding the time would be hard lol
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Agree mostly..... People that there first snake is a jag would notice nothing.... People that have collections for yrs then obtain a jag would see the slightest difference.... As you stated " excitement "
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deebo
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Im sure there are plenty of people who label stuff as pure/locale animals when its not.....just because you breed jags doesnt mean you are dodgy.
Dodgy is dodgy, plain and simple.
If you trust the breeder then it really shouldnt matter what they keep, you either take their word for it or you dont.
Dodgy is dodgy, plain and simple.
If you trust the breeder then it really shouldnt matter what they keep, you either take their word for it or you dont.
Rogue5861
Very Well-Known Member
Post should of read around 5% actually have major issues and most dont seem to be affected in anyway. As far as i am aware there is still not any documented papers that state that all jags have or possess a neuro disorder so for anyone to say otherwise it is just comes down to another person trying to bash on breeders/keepers of them.
More then happy to continue this through PM's so we can keep the thread on topic about "hybrid sibs" and not become another jag bashing thread.
Rick
Ah I understand now. No, it was not said sarcastically and I didn't mean to come across aggressively. I possibly should have sugar coated it but I felt that my meaning would be lost if I did not speak plainly.
I didn't want to type a novel on the subject as I do not know the ins and outs of breeding, etc however I most definitely feel that in a country such as ours, which has laws prohibiting exotic fauna, this 'jag gene' dividing the hobby shouldn't even be here.
Yes, I do understand that people are always going to break the rules and quite aware of the corns, boas, etc over here but does that mean we should turn a blind eye or try to sugar coat what we say to the owners and breeders of such illegals? In my opinion, no.
Edit: regarding hybrids, to keep thread on topic, I think it's stupid. Every man and his dog (snake) these days wants to breed. Not once have I ever bought a cat, dog, hermit crab, or otherwise and thought "cool now I can try and make them F something it wouldn't normally and see what kind of babies I will get".
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andynic07
Very Well-Known Member
My question about Jags is , if it was first bred in Australia would the jag gene cop as much criticism? I think that a lot of the criticism of jags comes from them being smuggled into the country. I understand that a lot of people are just against the neuro problems but a lot also seem to be against the "smugglers". Sorry off topic again.
I can't speak for anyone else but that is my only problem with them. If they were native then I would accept their neuro problems and look forward to scientists isolating it. Not to 'cure' them but to find out why it exists in the first place.
phatty
Well-Known Member
If it was breed In Australia and didn't have neuro and wasn't breed to every other Morelia and left as a pure morph more people would respect it I believe
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None, never will.
But have info from OZ, and overseas keepers that have been keeping them for years and all confirm this 100%.
Alot of them have stopped keeping them because of the long term neuro issues.
But have info from OZ, and overseas keepers that have been keeping them for years and all confirm this 100%.
Alot of them have stopped keeping them because of the long term neuro issues.
Rogue5861
Very Well-Known Member
That is just hearsay mate and you know it, word of mouth and not a 100% fact. I have a high respect for you and the animals you keep but i wouldnt of thought you to be someone that spreads propaganda.
Show us the research papers that prove this and maybe people will actually start to recognise this as an epidemic and not just jag bashing.
As i have stated i dont own or wish to own an jags or hybrid, but we all need to stick to the facts.
Rick
longqi
Very Well-Known Member
Many overseas jag breeders have bred them years and will continue to do so
Others have stopped
My only concern with jags is that I could never consider breeding any animal with incurable and unavoidable neuro problems
Others have stopped
My only concern with jags is that I could never consider breeding any animal with incurable and unavoidable neuro problems
Newhere
Well-Known Member
Andy if it was bred in Australia it would still be a species cross and still be illegal.
Just because the government can't prove it that doesn't make it any less illegal. I'm a newbie and I've been on this site like two months and I already know its illegal and so does everyone that keeps them and breeds them. Even the mods on this site know its against the law hence the editing of my previous post.
Just because the government can't prove it that doesn't make it any less illegal. I'm a newbie and I've been on this site like two months and I already know its illegal and so does everyone that keeps them and breeds them. Even the mods on this site know its against the law hence the editing of my previous post.
longqi
Very Well-Known Member
All evidence suggests the first jags were from Brisbane Coastal carpet pythons
If that is correct they would not be illegal because they were not a sub species or species cross
Evidence
There were big snakes matching any pure Brisbane for size
[that alone supports the next part]
Statements by Jan Engels who produced the first jags
[although there has always been some doubt over the exact pairing]
It was only a short time before Iryan Jaya carpets were introduced by the German Dutch and American breeders
IJs are much smaller and no jags of Brisbane coastal carpet size seem to be produced any more anywhere
So while the Aussie jag lines definitely contain mixed genes now, the original jags probably did not
Newhere
Well-Known Member
Ok so if we believe this guy and they were from coastals then wouldn't that be a like a rp or hypo in some way? And did the original jags have neuro problems or is it from the species cross that happened later?
I wouldn't care if they were bred from coastals in Australia and had no neuro issues but the fact still remains they are illegal and our government has trusted us to keep native wildlife and set out rules and regulations to protect those animals and our ecosystems, just because some crooks found a loophole in the system we all shouldn't have to pay for it and deal with the issues they cause. Like what to do with sibs.
I'm not just against jags I also think the same of anyone that crosses species and anyone that keeps exotics, they are all the same things - criminals.
I wouldn't care if they were bred from coastals in Australia and had no neuro issues but the fact still remains they are illegal and our government has trusted us to keep native wildlife and set out rules and regulations to protect those animals and our ecosystems, just because some crooks found a loophole in the system we all shouldn't have to pay for it and deal with the issues they cause. Like what to do with sibs.
I'm not just against jags I also think the same of anyone that crosses species and anyone that keeps exotics, they are all the same things - criminals.
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longqi
Very Well-Known Member
If we believe Jan Engels they just turned up in a batch of eggs
So they are not a hypo or a rp as we know it
They have a gene that causes a colour morph but also has an incurable hereditary problem
I never used to believe it but am now pretty sure that even the original jags had neuro
Two American buyers of the original jag line confirmed this
They are both adamant that neuro was there before the IJ was added to the mix
So they are not a hypo or a rp as we know it
They have a gene that causes a colour morph but also has an incurable hereditary problem
I never used to believe it but am now pretty sure that even the original jags had neuro
Two American buyers of the original jag line confirmed this
They are both adamant that neuro was there before the IJ was added to the mix
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