Crack down on subspecies crosses Queensland

[wokka]

This is the reason l wont be keeping anymore Carpet-Black-Headed-Woma Python's, because without proof of where they come from naturally from the wild, and that they have not been cross-breed with other sub-species from different locations far afield, how do you know that you are getting 100% pure un-related you don't.

Unless the person can provide a take from the wild permit to show where and when they were collected from IMO.

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I doubt that 0.01% of keepers could show you the information requested, Trueblue included, and then even if they can most have no way of identifying individual animals or linking their parents.
It boils down to wether you trust the breeder and the information he provides. Th government authorities arn't or cant do it for you!

 

[Dragon_77]

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I doubt that 0.01% of keepers could show you the information requested, Trueblue included, and then even if they can most have no way of identifying individual animals or linking their parents.
It boils down to wether you trust the breeder and the information he provides. Th government authorities arn't or cant do it for you![/QUOTE]

Warwick, Thanks for replying to my post in regards to keepers being able to prove to me where their Reptile's come from.
The only way any keeper can prove to me where their Reptile's come from and that they are pure un-related, is if they were collected on permit from the wild, and a DNA blood test is done to show whether or not they are from the same family, and if or not they are willing to share that information to me or anyone else.

l myself do have 1 pair of pure un-related NT phase Olive Python's, that were collected on permit on a snake callout in late 1999, so least l know where my pair of Olive Python's come from and they both a pure un-related to each other.

 

[Ramy]

They are pets of no conservational value and I don't understand why this law is even coming about?
If the authority were serious about "welfare" it's pretty simple grow some hemipenes and actually just target the snakes that break dance when stressed... at least even visually it's easy to tell which ones they are.

Part of the problem is escaped pets. What if a jag got out and managed to breed in the wild? What if a bredli cross got out and managed to breed just once before the kookaburras found them? After all, it's the reason we don't let Aussie's keep corn snakes. It's the reason we won't let them bring in Ball Pythons. That, and disease. But mostly because we don't want any more animals (toad, rabbit, deer, myna...) naturalising in our environment.

We would prefer that if local wild animals changed, that it's because it was evolutionarily advantageous, not because we spilt the milk. Jags under-mine that. Also, that if for any reason jungle carpet pythons disappeared in the wild, we like to think that we atleast managed to keep a few demo models in the shop.

 

[Red-Ink]

Part of the problem is escaped pets. What if a jag got out and managed to breed in the wild? What if a bredli cross got out and managed to breed just once before the kookaburras found them? After all, it's the reason we don't let Aussie's keep corn snakes. It's the reason we won't let them bring in Ball Pythons. That, and disease. But mostly because we don't want any more animals (toad, rabbit, deer, myna...) naturalising in our environment.

We would prefer that if local wild animals changed, that it's because it was evolutionarily advantageous, not because we spilt the milk. Jags under-mine that. Also, that if for any reason jungle carpet pythons disappeared in the wild, we like to think that we atleast managed to keep a few demo models in the shop.

If escaped pets was going to be the reasoning then a bredli or a MD (jag genetics, pure or not) getting out in FNQ and mixing with the local wildlife would be a threat to the local endemic carpet population... by that reasoning, no one in OZ should be allowed to keep anything that is not endemic to the area.

 

[ozziepythons]

Perhaps it’s just my imagination, but to me it seems to be that those who have spent the most time exploring the bush herping are generally the people who usually become the purists. Not hard to figure out why I think.

Agreed. Bush experienced herpers tend to appreciate the differences in morphology between locality specific bloodlines (i.e. colour and pattern between areas such as Uluru vs SA womas, Wheatbelt vs NSW stimsons, SA vs Vic Murrays) rather than candy coloured mixed bloodline progeny.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Please name a couple of them for me Boa lol

Not necessarily, I know numerous people who breed crosses that have done more than their fair share of bush herping. Bit too much of a generalisation really.

 

[Elapidae1]

Have to agree with Dave, Herpers are much more likely to be purists than outright keepers and while it may be a generalisation It rings true with every herper I know personally that their Ideals and ideas are generally more aligned with one another than with those only interested in keeping.

 

[champagne]

Yes the times are a changing. The jag, cross-bred mongrel area is comming to an end it looks like.
It seems that people are moving away from jags by the droves as they have been here long enough now so that alot of people are seeing first hand the long term medical issues with these vermin.

Jags, zebras, crosses ect are here to stay, if anyone thinks otherwise they just have their head in the sand.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I have seen it with my own eyes a few people who had limited appreciation of a particular species until they spent large tracks of time exploring the habitat. One obvious example is a close mate of mine who viewed Pygmy pythons as just a real ugly sister of a children’s python and not really worthy of been considered on our very limited W.A collecting list additions over other species. The same person now appreciates and keeps this species and I know how that appreciation grew upon him just as I had predicted it would.

 

[longqi]

Jags, zebras, crosses ect are here to stay, if anyone thinks otherwise they just have their head in the sand.

Jags were always a money game and always will be about the money so some people will always breed them
But
Interesting to see how many of the original jag enthusiasts now no longer breed them
Their jags are older now
They have seen the results of increasing neuro in these absolutely gorgeous snakes and are walking away

Crosses are definitely here to stay though
Too many great looking neuro free morphs being developed and proven out
They are the paint jobs of the future in Aus whether you like it or not

 

[champagne]

Jags were always a money game and always will be about the money so some people will always breed them
But
Interesting to see how many of the original jag enthusiasts now no longer breed them
Their jags are older now
They have seen the results of increasing neuro in these absolutely gorgeous snakes and are walking away

Crosses are definitely here to stay though
Too many great looking neuro free morphs being developed and proven out
They are the paint jobs of the future in Aus whether you like it or not

Yes but the breeders that got into jags for the money and are now getting out, are now jumping on the zebra money train... Plenty of people still breed jags and the neruo thing is so over rated it's not funny but what ever the purist want to believe.

 

[Hoplophile]

Melbourne zoo crossed fuscus and spilota in the late seventies. Well and truly before Nathan did it.

And between Morelia spilota and Morelia kinghorni/amethistina as well Scott (same male in both cases). The progeny had small scatted head scales like a carpet.

 

[yellowbeard]

Has anyone else heard of this happening?

No one has by the look of it, there is no DOE QLD crack down happening.

 

[longqi]

Yes but the breeders that got into jags for the money and are now getting out, are now jumping on the zebra money train... Plenty of people still breed jags and the neruo thing is so over rated it's not funny but what ever the purist want to believe.

Neuro is NOT over rated
It is present in every jag just to more or less extent
New jag owners with young snakes simply dont see it as much
Same with breeders who seldom handle their snakes
But as jags get older the neuro often worsens

Few jags over 10yrs old dont show bad neuro if handled
Try to find anyone overseas with old jags ie 14yrs
Only a few of them still alive and relatively healthy

 

[Retic]

No one has by the look of it, there is no DOE QLD crack down happening.

LOL but it created 50+ posts.

 

[andynic07]

No one has by the look of it, there is no DOE QLD crack down happening.

I did state in a post that it may have been a one off. I think crosses are here to stay and would hate to see a "crackdown" happen because it would cause a lot of snakes to be sold off as something they are not due to fear. I had hoped to get a gauge on if others had heard of this happening and if not wondered why this person was singled out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Well I hope they single many more of them out lol

 

[Retic]

I reckon there are much worse truly illegal activities within the hobby that should be cracked down on personally.

 

[andynic07]

I reckon there are much worse truly illegal activities within the hobby that should be cracked down on personally.

What is the things that you suggest are worse illegal activities out of interest?

 

[champagne]

Neuro is NOT over rated
It is present in every jag just to more or less extent
New jag owners with young snakes simply dont see it as much
Same with breeders who seldom handle their snakes
But as jags get older the neuro often worsens

Few jags over 10yrs old dont show bad neuro if handled
Try to find anyone overseas with old jags ie 14yrs
Only a few of them still alive and relatively healthy

Im not saying it is there but the purist love to bash on jags and claim they are a cork screwing which isn't the case... And how many jags have you kept that are over 10 years old?