What should be done with sibs?

[wokka]

For QLD it states "it is illegal to knowingly breed a mutation or hybrid of a protected animal" so legally the QLD authorities could confiscate them, how ever if what you have been told by other members true and the QLD authorities are fine with it, then QLD needs to review it's licencing of reptiles.

?
Can people from states other than NSW please do a cut and paste of your licencing requirements where it says it is actually illegal to create hybrids?

I ask this as there is always a lot bollocks, hearsay and crap posted of this forum with out proof (names, papers articles etc.)!!

I think it can be very difficult to legally prove that someone, KNOWINGLY has done something . If it was proven, does it necessarily follow that the animals would be confiscated? Is there a rule stating that you cannot keep hybrids or mutations, or just that you cannot breed them? Many keepers have legally imported hybrids or mutations from say NSW, where they can legally be bred, and kept them in Queensland. I would think that the allowing of the importation of such animals, by Qld DPI, is tandamount to allowing them to be legally kept in Queensland.

 

[Waterrat]

Copy / paste:

Guideline
Page 1 of 13 • 070702
Wildlife Management
Keeping wildlife privately in Queensland — Conditions and restrictions — Keeping and using controlled, commercial, recreational, restricted or international animals under a recreational wildlife licence


A person who holds a recreational wildlife licence may breed animals under the licence. It is an offence to knowingly breed a hybrid or mutation of a protected animal; however, the holder of a recreational wildlife licence may breed a mutation, but not a hybrid.

 

[chimerapro]

Copy / paste:

Guideline
Page 1 of 13 • 070702
Wildlife Management
Keeping wildlife privately in Queensland — Conditions and restrictions — Keeping and using controlled, commercial, recreational, restricted or international animals under a recreational wildlife licence


A person who holds a recreational wildlife licence may breed animals under the licence. It is an offence to knowingly breed a hybrid or mutation of a protected animal; however, the holder of a recreational wildlife licence may breed a mutation, but not a hybrid.

When the dept themselves doesn't know what a hybrid is in the literal sense then how can they claim to have a law regarding it? Section 92 part 1 (a) of the nature conservation act amendment 2013 states otherwise Michael so your statement is wrong! Mutations are overlooked yet in the act are illegal its there in black and white. A hybrid in the depts opinion is a human manipulated breeding isn't keeping snakes in cages the first step in human manipulation anyway? Just because hybrids haven't been found in the wild doesn't mean they can't and haven't happened

 

[Waterrat]

My statement is wrong? It's not my statement, it's a copy / paste.

Geee, it doesn't take long to get nailed here.

 

[yellowbeard]

however, the holder of a recreational wildlife licence may breed a mutation, but not a hybrid.

How about you do a full cut and paste as this statement refers to birds!!!!!!!!

 

[chimerapro]

There we go

- - - Updated - - -

My statement is wrong? It's not my statement, it's a copy / paste.

Geee, it doesn't take long to get nailed here.

It doesn't take long to be found out to have quoted the wrong section of the act either

 

[andynic07]

I think it can be very difficult to legally prove that someone, KNOWINGLY has done something . If it was proven, does it necessarily follow that the animals would be confiscated? Is there a rule stating that you cannot keep hybrids or mutations, or just that you cannot breed them? Many keepers have legally imported hybrids or mutations from say NSW, where they can legally be bred, and kept them in Queensland. I would think that the allowing of the importation of such animals, by Qld DPI, is tandamount to allowing them to be legally kept in Queensland.

I am not sure where I got this information from but I was under the belief that in Queensland keeping two snakes in the same enclosure is enough proof of intent.

 

[Stevo2]

View attachment 298739There we go

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't take long to be found out to have quoted the wrong section of the act either

Although both still have the same intent, lol. Protected animals are further defined as controlled, commercial, recreational, restricted or international animals within the act and guidelines and refer to both reptiles and birds.

 

[wokka]

I am not sure where I got this information from but I was under the belief that in Queensland keeping two snakes in the same enclosure is enough proof of intent.

It sounds like the sort of thing you'd find on forums! I'd like to see legal precident for that. Do they need to be different sexes? Is there a requirement that snakes be kept seperate in Queensland?

 

[thomasssss]

Although both still have the same intent, lol. Protected animals are further defined as controlled, commercial, recreational, restricted or international animals within the act and guidelines and refer to both reptiles and birds.

yes but the one referring to birds allows mutations , the one for reptiles does not i think thats what their saying

 

[Stevo2]

yes but the one referring to birds allows mutations , the one for reptiles does not i think thats what their saying

Ah

 

[andynic07]

It sounds like the sort of thing you'd find on forums! I'd like to see legal precident for that. Do they need to be different sexes? Is there a requirement that snakes be kept seperate in Queensland?

Possibly something said on here but I think it was told to me from a breeder. I guess there are a few flaws in that theory once you think about it because you could always say that they were both sexed as females. There is no requirement to house snakes separately in Queensland as far as I know. I would think that if you paired the same two snakes up multiple years that it would be easier to prove intent.

 

[=bECS=]

Here's some food for thought from this site, regarding labeling them as they are, people being honest about the fact they are hybrids or jag sibs etc.

So without naming names, there is a diamond for sale at an exuberant price, no other x's mentioned in the advertisment.
Now a little background research shows a first post stating that its a 75% diamond 25% jungle. The parents were a pure diamond and a jungle x diamond.
So say someone buys the said diamond at the 10x markup to what the owner originally paid (all was revealed simply by clicking forum posts) then breeds it and sells offspring as pure because as far as they know it is.
This is a prime example of why there are so many debates of what to do with siblings and the honesty of sellers.
Someone had a brilliant signature on here once.... a wise python knows its parents!

 

[andynic07]

Here's some food for thought from this site, regarding labeling them as they are, people being honest about the fact they are hybrids or jag sibs etc.

So without naming names, there is a diamond for sale at an exuberant price, no other x's mentioned in the advertisment.
Now a little background research shows a first post stating that its a 75% diamond 25% jungle. The parents were a pure diamond and a jungle x diamond.
So say someone buys the said diamond at the 10x markup to what the owner originally paid (all was revealed simply by clicking forum posts) then breeds it and sells offspring as pure because as far as they know it is.
This is a prime example of why there are so many debates of what to do with siblings and the honesty of sellers.
Someone had a brilliant signature on here once.... a wise python knows its parents!

That is poor form in my opinion. Are you able to PM the details at all?

 

[=bECS=]

Look in for sale section, recent ad, not hard to figure out. Its an expensive diamond with only a few forum posts

 

[RedFox]

I saw that.

This is exactly how easily breeding lines can get mixed up. This seller started off with the animal labelled as what it was and received some not so great feedback as well as a comparision between pure diamond and hybrid prices.

That being said I would hope most of those looking to breed pures would be looking at the history of the snake instead of taking it on the seller word, and would buy from reputable sources.

 

[Vixen]

That being said I would hope most of those looking to breed pures would be looking at the history of the snake instead of taking it on the seller word, and would buy from reputable sources.

You would hope so, but some people are only out for a cheap bargain. You get what you pay for but they fail to realise this, it's the same people that go on to then breed the animal without really knowing anything of it's background.

Example they won't go and buy a nice locality coastal for $200 when they can go and pick up some $80 coastal that may or may not even be pure, just because it saves a little out of their pockets!

 

[junglepython2]

That being said I would hope most of those looking to breed pures would be looking at the history of the snake instead of taking it on the seller word, and would buy from reputable sources.

Unfortunately with east coast species you have little choice but to go off the sellers word and reputation when it come to purity and locale.