Breeding Debate

[Red-Ink]

And newbs should stop breeding reptiles for "experience" it affects the markets bottom line....

 

[AUSHERP]

I prefer to trade for animals over money any day....... Money just gets chewed up by house and car repayments.
p.s
i recently bought an adult trio of carpet pythons they are all in a 2 ft tank, they wont eat the crickets i'm feeding them, should i sell them and try breeding a better snake that will eat?

 

[hulloosenator]

Why do breeders encourage people to buy in pairs?

a). they get more sales as they sell 2 animals.
b). they can keep their sex ratio even so they arent stuck with only males or only females.

Any other reasons?



Why do people buy in pairs?

To breed them.


They aren't book-ends, they dont need company. Breeders know this, so why should breeders get upset that the person they just sold a pair too are going to breed them and sell offspring also?

why do some breeders sell 2 males as a pair or 2 females as a pair ????????....knowing full well what they are doing.......and not by mistake either , then when the customer rings up and questions it ( when they have found out the sex ) the seller says that a "pair" can be 2 of either sex.or the same. Well known breeders are known to do this.

 

[AUSHERP]

quality 1st post hulloosenator this is "Aussie pythons and snakes" not "Bull **** down under"

 

[Red-Ink]

i recently bought an adult trio of carpet pythons they are all in a 2 ft tank, they wont eat the crickets i'm feeding them, should i sell them and try breeding a better snake that will eat?

Have you tried housing skinks in there with them... If they see the skinks eating the crickets they will learn that crickets are food, the skinks can teach them.

 

[AUSHERP]

I knew someone could help, I just never thought it would be the skinks.... of all people.

 

[D3pro]

Parko, your words are ringing in my ears. Not long ago I posted a question "is the hobby on a downward spiral?" Oh no, it isn't, the very opposite ... were most of the replies and I got flamed by some for suggesting that it is, despite the fact I only asked the question. Funny world, this fickle hobby.

Ahh yes.... loved that thread....

 

[-Katana-]

Have you tried housing skinks in there with them... If they see the skinks eating the crickets they will learn that crickets are food, the skinks can teach them.

This post is just forum gold.

 

[hulloosenator]

Have you tried housing skinks in there with them... If they see the skinks eating the crickets they will learn that crickets are food, the skinks can teach them.

hang on there fellas...........i just got up off the floor from laughing

 

[hugsta]

why do some breeders sell 2 males as a pair or 2 females as a pair ????????....knowing full well what they are doing.......and not by mistake either , then when the customer rings up and questions it ( when they have found out the sex ) the seller says that a "pair" can be 2 of either sex.or the same. Well known breeders are known to do this.

Well can you be more specific? I don't know of any well known breeders that do this, but would certainly love to know who they are so I can add them to my little black book. I have and many others I know I have sold thousands of snakes over the years and I have never misled anyone as to what they are buying. it does you absolutely no favours to bulll***** someone and sell them a "pair" of males. This may ring true if you are gay, no offence gay people, but whenever I here about 'pairs', it is always in regards to a M & F combination.

quality 1st post hulloosenator this is "Aussie pythons and snakes" not "Bull **** down under"

Agreed.

 

[AUSHERP]

Thank you Hugsta, If ever there is a sexing mistake an appropriate swap takes place to rectify the situation.

 

[hugsta]

Thank you Hugsta, If ever there is a sexing mistake an appropriate swap takes place to rectify the situation.

Exactly.

 

[FAY]

why do some breeders sell 2 males as a pair or 2 females as a pair ????????....knowing full well what they are doing.......and not by mistake either , then when the customer rings up and questions it ( when they have found out the sex ) the seller says that a "pair" can be 2 of either sex.or the same. Well known breeders are known to do this.

I have never heard of any reputable breeder doing this.

 

[Waterrat]

And newbs should stop breeding reptiles for "experience" it affects the markets bottom line....

Says Red-Ink - listen to his wisdom. You'll be experienced.

 

[Dannyboi]

I have never heard of any reputable breeder doing this.

There was a forum member complaining about it but it was a little worse they were sold as a "sexed pair" at an expo they were apparently well known breeders too.

 

[bk201]

fun thread to read laughing at most of the posts and the people

i find it odd how people are saying low quality as normal reptiles, i guess we know these are the ones in it for the money.

Also the claim that the small breeders/"newbies" are flooding the market and bringing down the prices is ridiculous, is it the small breeders with 500+ bearded dragons to offload of course not its the older breeders who decided its time to make a sight name a few morphs and breed a massive amount to cash in, breeding blind lizards because they are albino etc which is ridiculous.

i have goten many lizards and a few snakes over the last few years and the majority of the breeders are keepers who keep a few species of good quality animals, these are not 10k+ animals they are natural looking healthy animals they maintain and breed for many generations, which is what alot of the "newbies" plan to do it is the small minority of newbies that are making these posts and they just seem to stand out we all know why.


anyway check the for sale adds this season and next season and see many of these "big high quality breeders" with way to much stock seen a few over last few years with 500+ bearded dragons etc they cant unload so fancy names, morphs, dwarfs, appear and the "quality" goes up yet its the same stock many of these "newbies" have like myself i got a "high quality" $150 dollar red bearded dragon as my first dragon, which is grey, but i dont care its healty and doing great.

soooo get over yourselves already.


i do know many of the expensive high quality reptiles are genuine but like with the money hungry newbies same applies to experienced keepers/ big breeders etc so dont be fooled into thinking its the new keepers fault.

 

[Elapidae1]

It doesn't matter whether it's $100 or $500, people always have and always will cheap out on vets. It's a reflection of character, not market value.



Those you listed are professionally ran, while they have to make a profit to be a business, they will still get business because of their reputation and people feeling safer purchasing from them cause of that. The people i were refering to are people who haven't done any hard yards breeding specific lines etc, and just decide to breed as what they think will be a get rich scheme rather than for the love of it.
The issue of not being able to sell/give away the progeny would make people think and plan out their breeding more carefully, they would have to plan for space to possibly keep the ones that aren't taken till they are taken, rather than just jumping into breeding willy nilly.

Sure, it's true people can afford a good portion of the common species now with recently seeing a lot in the $100 range, which is a good thing and how it should be.
Because not everyone is as fortunate to have X amount of money to throw around whenever they please, some of us on lower income may only be able to spare so much. What do you mean "what kind of people will they be?" That's a bit of a condescending snobbish attitude don't you think? Just cause someone doesn't earn as much money as you, doesn't mean they are any less of a credible person..

In one breath your saying people who cheap out on vets are of poor character and in the next breath your standing up for those that might not be able to afford a vet at all after spending only 100 bucks on a snake, Who's being condescending and snobbish?

 

[CodeRed]

Well can you be more specific? I don't know of any well known breeders that do this, but would certainly love to know who they are so I can add them to my little black book. I have and many others I know I have sold thousands of snakes over the years and I have never misled anyone as to what they are buying. it does you absolutely no favours to bulll***** someone and sell them a "pair" of males. This may ring true if you are gay, no offence gay people, but whenever I here about 'pairs', it is always in regards to a M & F combination.




Agreed.

Hey Daz, you're forgetting our old mate up in Cairns (well he's moved now). He sold me 3 male bredli as a trio and a female jungle that turned out to be his worst feeding male. Shame you cant publicly mention names, but enough people know already

 

[Red-Ink]

Says Red-Ink - listen to his wisdom. You'll be experienced.

Damn right.... for all the people out there who want to breed your reptiles go for it.... breeding reptiles aint the monopoly of the few. Just keep breeding them, I mean how much experience can one person want in breeding. A decade of breeding surely they have enough "experience" in it and should probably move one from the breeding experience. Afterall were all just in it for the "experience" right?.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Gee, 12 hours away from the computer and the old chips-on-the-shoulders are really showing themselves!

Red-Ink & Khagan, you both clearly have issues with objectivity. Neither of you have put forth any reasonable arguments in favour of a 'breeding free-for-all' other than some silly notion that 'experienced' breeders don't want newcomers encroaching on their turf, and 'it's my right to do whatever I want, whenever I want to...' Both of those arguments are entirely subjective, and reflect a 'last resort response' to the serious questions posed here. The 'I'll ********* do what I like, just try and stop me...' isn't really appropriate where live animals are concerned. We already have reptile 'welfare' at the forefront of bureaucratic scrutiny of our hobby here in NSW, and it's only going to get worse as time goes on and there are thousands of unwanted breli & Coastals being poorly maintained, starved or released.

I know many breeders who sell true pairs of animals, to relative newcomers who display the attributes of future responsible breeders themselves, and are very happy to offer advice on breeding down the track... In fact I don't know any reputable breeder who would refuse to do this. I'm sure Michael, who cops a bit of flak here because of his stance on 'free-for-all' breeding (like me), has sold true pairs of animals to people he knows are proposing to breed them later, and I would be very surprised if he hung up on his clients of 3-4 years earlier when they want advice. He has published heaps of info on GTP husbandry, all of it useful and lots of it relating to breeding.

Jealousy is one of the biggest problems facing herp keepers as a community, it fractures and destroys any objectivity in debates like this.

I don't know one 'successful' breeder who doesn't enjoy sharing the knowledge they have accumulated over the years. If yours is the opposite experience, you're obviously living in a different world than mine, and maybe you should get out more...

Jamie