symptoms of RI? please help

[euphorion]

off to the vets first thing in the morning but wanted advice here first

long story short;

bought a trio of hatchy maccies a month ago, all seemed fine, all were eating,
two are going great guns, shed/eat/poop all good,
one hasn't eaten since being brought home, tried everything (braining/scenting/rats/mice/cover tub/left overnight, etc) has shed after coming here though...
looked in of the fellows today and the one in question is just lying listlessly in the corner, and now i've noticed that the tongue isn't even coming out.
so, symptoms; shed but no eat, looking skinny, no interest in food, no striking, no tongue flicking

temps are all fine, clean tubs etc (well the other buggers are fine so i assume its not something im doing wrong)

is this a symptom of RI, should i raise or lower temps? have left a defrosted washed pinky in there tonight in the hopes that he eats... help please!

 

[bfg23]

how often are you trying to feed?
i made the mistake trying to feed every 2-3 days when trying to get my jungle to eat. i left it alone completely for a week then tried and all was well.

 

[euphorion]

yup same thing, been left alone for a week with a towel over the tub to help calm it down (if stress was the issue) but nope, not interested.

 

[ad]

You dont have them co-housed do you?
Hold him by the head and put him up to your ear and listen for a clicking sound,
Cheers
Adam

 

[euphorion]

nope all seperated ad.

just had a listen and hes clicking all right, not much but its noticable. athough i did just dunk the tip of his head in a bowl of warm water cos he had some pee on his head, he did stick his head in himself and take a drink too... might be that he sucked some water up his nose?

regardless, hes clicking, moving but only slowly, no bubbles in his nose or anything. did see his tongue come out a few times just to the end of the fork, the forks weren't stuck together.

i think hes just buggered because he hasnt eaten anything for a while, but that doesnt help my current situation. recommendations on force feeding?

 

[southy]

try fuzzies , they seem to help and make sure they are really warm

 

[euphorion]

we tried fresh killed, is that warm enough?

 

[seumas12345]

Don't force feed unless a vet does it.... Plus if it has RI then force feeding will only irritate the mouth more making it worse...

Open its mouth and check for signs of RI, redness, bleeding etc...

 

[euphorion]

how should i open its mouth? dont care if thats a stupid question but i dont want to do any damage, and ive never had to do it before

 

[ad]

no worries shoo shoo,
bump his temp up a few degrees and the vet will sort it from there,

I wouldnt force feed just yet, he should go a month or more easily without much drama, let him get over the ri and he should feed happily again, again, ask the vet tomorrow, they can advise a lot better than someone on an internet forum

 

[seumas12345]

I was going to give you a method didn't want to sounds like a know it all haha.
Ok you dont need to open it entirely... Pretend you are giving the thumbs up with one hand... Now imagine that your curled fingers are holding your snakes neck, with the head coming out near the thumb... Now, using your thumb, pull the side of it's mouth down gently and you will be able to see in one side (you won't be able to see very far in)... Enough to see if there is any redness or spottiness...

If you still dont get it let me know and I'll take a pic

Sorry just to add to that, if you are going to the vet soon just let the vet do it (like ad said)....

 

[Khagan]

Regarding opening the mouth, id say if you dunno how to do it leave it for when it goes to the vet, cause if it's already sick you don't want to stress it.

 

[euphorion]

was just about to try opening his mouth when he stuck his head down and opened his mouth, closing is quickly again but i did see that the front of his mouth is just pale pink, sort of like the colour of dogs gums when they're stressed or lost alot of blood, does that help at all?

im putting a heat cord under his tub tonight to bump the temp a little as he normally just has a black light to 85-89F so that should help him tonight. deff off to the vet in the morning, havent figured out which one yet though, i have clayton knight in deception bay, thena place in stafford and a place in macgregor, all herp specialists im told, any suggestions?

 

[mysnakesau]

I would be separating him from the others if I were you. RI is contagious. Move him to a lower a traffic area to 'quarantine' him until he gets the all clear. Keeping him warm is what needs to happen so may need to raise his temps. The germ that causes RI lives with the animals all the time. In times of stress, too cold, or whenever their immune systems go down, this brings the germ to life and causes the RI.

Another way to get a python to open its mouth is try gently manipulate say handle of a wooden spoon or a probe into the corner of his mouth - like where the bit sits in a horse's mouth. He won't be about to close it while he something there. Give you time to have a look in his mouth to see colours, spitty, etc.

Are you sure he isn't listless & not eating because the weather is cooling. I know it must seem odd compared to the other two, but he may be spending more time in his cool end and with the onset of winter coming, room temps are cooler than normal which can trigger hybernation.

Let us know what the vet says. Hope its nothing serious.

 

[seumas12345]

Pale/paleish gums (or around the rim of the mouth) is normal (at least for all my snakes)....

Still the fact he is clicking and the fork is stuck together is an issue... he will be fine tonight... but definitely take him to the vet

 

[euphorion]

fork is not stuck together and by listless i mean looks like hes too weak to do much more than sit on my hand

heat cord is in there now.

 

[Khagan]

Did his mouth look clean when he opened it? Wasn't all mucusy or whatever?

 

[seumas12345]

mmm very strange... like i said vet is your best option... make sure you ask LOTS and LOTS of questions, you're paying for it after all...

Ask about the temps, the inside of it's mouth, it's breathing, it's tongue, it's activeness, it's strength when being held (as you said it seems weak), enclosure, number of hides, it being close to winter.

I'd ask all of these questions and get as much info as you can to help the vet make a correct assessment.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[euphorion]

thanks seumas, will write a list to take with me to make sure i dont forget!
khagan, yes clean, nothing nasty in there. i figure the forks being seperated means that there isnt anything gooey going on in there yet, so hopefully have caught it in time. having said that hes only tiny, like under 20 grams :S so i dont know how you go about administering drugs to a tiny bugger like that.

thanks again, will check this in the morning in case nay of you think of anything else, for the meantime im off to bed and will let you know what happens tomorrow

 

[Khagan]

having said that hes only tiny, like under 20 grams :S so i dont know how you go about administering drugs to a tiny bugger like that.

With a very tiny syringe :lol:.