What is "experience"?

[Waterrat]

Some one asked me recently: "when am I going to be experienced enough to have a GTP?"
I thought this is an interesting topic. "Experience" is an uncertain entity with no limits, boundaries or benchmarks, yet we often refer to it as if it was black and white.

If you kept two snakes for 20 years and never had any problems with them, it suggests that you're doing things right (or are lucky) but you haven't learned or experienced much outside your routine.
If you have a collection of 50 snakes, chances are that something will go wrong from time to time and you will have to deal with it - then, you are experiencing something new.
Basically, we learn from our mistakes and mishaps that just do happen, sometimes we resolve the problems, sometimes we don't. In my opinion, an experienced reptile keeper is one who can spot a problem, identify it, recognise what caused it and can correctly deal with it. The more we learn and experience, the easier it gets to avoid and prevent problems before they occur.
I am largely referring to health and behavioural issues here.

How important is to know about the animals' ecology, natural behaviour, natural history? A lot (in my opinion) but it seems that for too many reptile keepers it's not important at all. What do you think?

 

[gillsy]

I think natural behaviour and natural history are irrelevant. How often do we keep them naturally, eg 2 snakes in one small space, incubating eggs, breeding every season, feeding every 2nd week.

Captive behaviour and husbandy are more important, Ecology is in most parts irrelevant as well, we don't provide a large enough habitat in captivity to study ecology as it's the interaction with other living organisms and most are kept solitary. For some things eg keeping males together we need to know that they don't do so well. But again that comes down to captive husbandry.

 

[gillsy]

I don't see GTP's as any more advanced then keeping a finnicky feeder, they just require slightly more moderated temps and higher humidty.

Breeding is slightly more difficult, but I haven't bred BHP's or GTP's but from what friends have told me BHP's can be harder.

 

[Waterrat]

This is not about GTPs or any particular species.
Do you think you can acquire experience from reading? You build up body of knowledge from experiences but the other way around? Hmmm.

 

[CamdeJong]

I didn't get my first snake until I'd been volunteering at Snakes Downunder for about a year and I definitely agree about the difference experience makes. By the time I got my first Jungle I'd been looking after everything from Eastern Browns and Taipans to adult Scrubbies, and I'd learnt so much and seen such a variety of behaviours and individual species requirements that I had no worries - and still haven't, touch wood - with any of my snakes. I think the more knowledge you can pack into your brain before you start keeping reptiles, the better. I'd read about snakes as a kid and before getting snakes, everything from Peter Mirtschin's venomous snake field guides to Mike Swan's captive keeping books and even the Cogger, or some of it anyway =). But as long as you have some good material to refer to and someone experienced to look to I think gaining the experience for yourself is one of the greatest pleasures of keeping reptiles.

 

[Guest]

Natural behavior and ecology of a species is a very important part in understanding an animals needs!
how else do we determin the husbandry differences between say a diamond and a GTP without understanding how the animals interact with the envoronment they are native too?

 

[gillsy]

Of course not, experience comes from keeping however I don't think a specific animals' ecology, natural behaviour or natural history need to be known.

I'd be suprised if overseas keepers of Australian pythons know anything at all natural about them. It all comes down to captive husbandry experince and knowledge.

Natural behavior and ecology of a species is a very impotrant part in understanding an animals needs!
how else do you determin the husbandry differences between say a diamond and a GTP?

When they were first brought into captivity yes, but if i was to pick up a carpet snake tomorrow, I could keep it with a heat mat, water bowl, hide and newspaper (on recommendation of the breeder). Without knowning anything about it's natural ecology. And it would be no different to someone who knew the ecology of the animal.

Saying that knowing the natural behaviours and ecology would enriche your keeping of the animal, but the average person who keeps one snake wont give a rats.

 

[CamdeJong]

Natural behavior and ecology of a species is a very impotrant part in understanding an animals needs!
how else do we determin the husbandry differences between say a diamond and a GTP without understanding how the animals interact with the envoronment they are native too?

How do I get a thumbs up emoticon on this thing? =D
Beyond being vital, in my opinion, how can you keep a snake and not be interested in finding out its ecology and such anyway? I'm studying Zoology and I do snake relocations and regular herping trips to study reptiles. There is so much more to them than husbandry!

 

[gillsy]

How do I get a thumbs up emoticon on this thing? =D
Beyond being vital, in my opinion, how can you keep a snake and not be interested in finding out its ecology and such anyway? I'm studying Zoology and I do snake relocations and regular herping trips to study reptiles. There is so much more to them than husbandry!

Agreed totally, and I love field herping, but the topic is knowing about ecology and the natural side of the animal required to be an experienced keeper and no, I don't think it is.

 

[ramzee86]

I think hands on experience is definately the most important, when i got my first Jungle, i was worrried because after reading a tonne of care sheets it felt like i had to be with the snake all day making sure everything was right. But after actually acquiring the snake and having hands on experience i realised that its not difficult at all with the right set up. i could leave my snake for a week now and not be worried that something will go wrong.

Im just saying as much as you read about something, it usually proves to be a totally different experience when you actually acquire the animal, and you really do learn much more by observation rather than reading.
BUT i still believe no matter what, reading before you get the animal is the best back up, and you can never be too prepared.

 

[CamdeJong]

Agreed totally, and I love field herping, but the topic is knowing about ecology and the natural side of the animal required to be an experienced keeper and no, I don't think it is.

I don't think a definite line can be drawn between behavioural and other ecology and captive husbandry. Is the knowledge of why two snakes of the same species won't live well together from keeping or studying wild specimens? Same goes for knowledge of wild feeding habits, distribution, and really everything in between. The need for general knowledge and the need to gain experience aren't really about captive or natural, because they're one and the same.

 

[greeny1]

What makes you think you should be the person to tell everyone else if they have experience or not, it should be a personal issue not one for everyone else, experience will vary from person to person and some will have it with certain areas of the hobby compared to differant areas. Example alot of people will be relatively expererienced with pythons yet very few will be experienced with elapids. You need to build up some experience from reading otherwise you can start in the dark and make alot of mistakes therefor calling yourself "experienced" yet youve made many mistakes from not reading up first when someone else who has read all they need to know, and goes into keeping sucessfully without mistakes is therefor not experienced?

 

[scorps]

I dont know what yous are talking about, experiance is based on how many post counts you have

 

[PilbaraPythons]

I think you certainly can indeed gain huge knowledge from reading even non husbandry books e.g. The natural History of Australian Snakes by Dr Shine ( a fantasic book for anyone just starting ) indirectly gives one a great insight into how one would be able to maintain certain species in a captive environment, but is that knowledge experience ? perhaps not ?
Field experience ( finding and playing with snakes in the wild ) I think just adds to the appreciation and of course keeping and breeding numourous difference species simply teachs one better husbandry skills which is undoutedly experience.
Doing all three I fully recommend.

 

[jinin]

Hands on experience is the main experience when it comes to reptiles, keeping numerous species and a large quantity of animals will give you a large amount of experience. Understanding the animals you keep and their behaviour is a number one, second is treating problems and preventing them for the future, you learn from your mistakes.

 

[Waterrat]

What makes you think you should be the person to tell everyone else if they have experience or not, You need to build up some experience from reading

If you are addressing me - I am not telling anyone if they have experience, where did you get that from? Read!
You will never build up experience from reading, only knowledge.

 

[gillsy]

What makes you think you should be the person to tell everyone else if they have experience or not,

And if your talking to me, I'm not telling anyone anything. This is an opinion based post, I don't think natural behaviour or ecology is needed to gain experince. That is all. You can tell someone not to keep a mulga in with a northern blue tongue in with a Mulga, they don't need to know they are natural prey/predator to gain that experience.

I know my examples are very loose, but it comes down to the first question is it needed.

If you have one snake, as a pet, they aren't going to care what ecology it is. They just want to know that the heat mat, tub and waterbowl is sufficient to keep it healthy.

However if you have a rescued red belly that needs car and has naturally fed on frogs, having the knowledge of them being frog and reptile eaters to scent mice will help.

Ultimately it's IS IT REQUIRED VS WILL IT MAKE A BETTER KEEPER, and yes it will but it's not required to keep. IMO.

If you are addressing me - I am not telling anyone if they have experience, where did you get that from? Read!
You will never build up experience from reading, only knowledge.

Completely agree, you can have knowledge but wisdom comes with age. Same with keeping.

 

[Wookie]

How important is to know about the animals' ecology, natural behaviour, natural history? A lot (in my opinion) but it seems that for too many reptile keepers it's not important at all. What do you think?

I agree with you. I think it is largely relevant. Often, husbandry requirements are dictated by the natural environment of the animal in question. Ie temps and humidity. Though most would read this from a book as temperatures and not consider that these were once set according to the natural environment of their pet.

 

[Owzi]

Interesting question & reading!
I remember an article from Dave Barker measuring experience in "snake years". Keep 1 snake for 1 year, you have 1 snake year experience. Have a pair that bred 10 babies & keep them all for a year, you have 12 snake years experience. I dare say a few of the bigger breeders wouldn't be able to add this up now though!

I think experience mostly comes from hands on keeping. Getting a young animal & growing it up to be a healthy adult is good experience. I guess the most respected experience is captive breeding your animals.

I think reading all you can find on the particular animals you own, knowing an animals ecology, natural behaviour & natural history will make you a better keeper.

 

[pythons73]

What a interesting topic...ive owned reptiles for 18odd years and have read alot of books about them.But having first hand experience is a must be.Getting fussy feeders eating..incubating eggs sucessfully..getting the hatchies feeding on a regurlar basis...and so on are all part of being experienced IMO..So Ben with 3109 post where does that leave you...lol... Indentifying different species is a must..Even the so called experienced people are still learning tricks of the trade...