The same thing here, I started with tigers, copperheads and other elapids. It's matter of attitude, expectations and what fascinates you. It also depends if you want to become experienced keeper / handler across the board or just a part of it. There is nothing wrong with starting with crocodiles and vens.
What is "experience"?
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The same thing here, I started with tigers, copperheads and other elapids. It's matter of attitude, expectations and what fascinates you. It also depends if you want to become experienced keeper / handler across the board or just a part of it. There is nothing wrong with starting with crocodiles and vens.
Just so you know years ago there where no forums or clubs ect so some of the more experiencet keepers jump't in to the deep end and that's how they got experience.. not sitting behind a screen
Jumping in the deep end is fine for some. You either learn to swim pretty freakin fast or drown. However when it comes to reptiles or any animal husbandry for that matter there is a moral obligation to provide suitable care, so jumping in the deep end might be ok for the keeper but not neccessarily for the reptile.
I recently learned a valuable lesson and became more experienced for it, but the outcome for the animal involved was less than satisfactory.
I recently learned a valuable lesson and became more experienced for it, but the outcome for the animal involved was less than satisfactory.
I agree its just like riding a dirt bike you will have a stack at one point and you learn from it same as a snake bite if you work with them day in day out you will get a bit at some point and you will learn from it
waruikazi
Legendary
That is a good point and i can tell you i had some seriously close calls! But what i am getting at is there are several ways to get experience.
longqi
Very Well-Known Member
This is interesting from a totally different perspective
I can say I have experience in several different aspects of reptile keeping
I have successfully bred several varieties of snakes but would not class myself as a highly experienced breeder
I have looked after large number of reptiles successfully in a commercial environment
I have demonstrated reptiles all up and down the Eastern seaboard from Melbourne to Darwin
I have privately owned many 'pet' reptiles for long periods
How many reptile books do I own??? None
In primitive conditions I have successfully recovered sick reptiles
So yes I have experience in many of the reptile fields
But could I ever dream about calling myself an expert??
I dont think so
I can say I have experience in several different aspects of reptile keeping
I have successfully bred several varieties of snakes but would not class myself as a highly experienced breeder
I have looked after large number of reptiles successfully in a commercial environment
I have demonstrated reptiles all up and down the Eastern seaboard from Melbourne to Darwin
I have privately owned many 'pet' reptiles for long periods
How many reptile books do I own??? None
In primitive conditions I have successfully recovered sick reptiles
So yes I have experience in many of the reptile fields
But could I ever dream about calling myself an expert??
I dont think so
Fantazmic
Very Well-Known Member
This is a really interesting thread
I am learning to be a psychologist I am provisonally registered and one of the commandments the 'ethiccal guidelines' give is that a psychologist should not proactice outside of their expertise
and yet in order to learn I have to practice outside of my expertise all the time....for example....I did training in couples therapy 5 years ago and my first couple I saw in real life stormed out on me lol. Now i have had more 'experience' in the field I am starting to work with Domestic Violence. I have done training...started with seeing women on their own...then couples and am progressing towards also doing family therapy.
Thing is I would never have been allowed to work with Domestic Violence in the beginning until i was 'confident' working with more simpler cases.
So I guess I tell this story because I think it is the same with keeping snakes. It is not so much when you will be experienced enough because there will always be something you havent experienced that is new that will surprise you...I think the question is....when will you be CONFIDENT enough to keep a GTP. I guess you friend is asking the question....when will I feel confident enough to know when something is going wrong and I am out of my depth and need to ask for help with keeping my GTP and maybe at the moment your friend still doesnt feel that confidence.
I say this not as a bad thing but as a good thing.....i have a great deal of respect for someone who says that dont feel they are experienced enough (confident enough)........it means they take their way of being in the world very seriously. Your friend will know when they feel they have enough confidence to keep a GTP......and when they feel it I do hope that they go ahead and get themselves one.......having the self awareness to know that they are not quite in that place to be aware of when they might need help or things might be going wrong is a very good personal trait and something that is really looked for in the field of psychology.......... and this is because it means the person will be vigilant enough to ASK and intuitive enough to sense when things are wrong and wont be shy to come forward and ask for help instead of pretending they 'know it all'
Good Luck
Elizabeth
I am learning to be a psychologist I am provisonally registered and one of the commandments the 'ethiccal guidelines' give is that a psychologist should not proactice outside of their expertise
and yet in order to learn I have to practice outside of my expertise all the time....for example....I did training in couples therapy 5 years ago and my first couple I saw in real life stormed out on me lol. Now i have had more 'experience' in the field I am starting to work with Domestic Violence. I have done training...started with seeing women on their own...then couples and am progressing towards also doing family therapy.
Thing is I would never have been allowed to work with Domestic Violence in the beginning until i was 'confident' working with more simpler cases.
So I guess I tell this story because I think it is the same with keeping snakes. It is not so much when you will be experienced enough because there will always be something you havent experienced that is new that will surprise you...I think the question is....when will you be CONFIDENT enough to keep a GTP. I guess you friend is asking the question....when will I feel confident enough to know when something is going wrong and I am out of my depth and need to ask for help with keeping my GTP and maybe at the moment your friend still doesnt feel that confidence.
I say this not as a bad thing but as a good thing.....i have a great deal of respect for someone who says that dont feel they are experienced enough (confident enough)........it means they take their way of being in the world very seriously. Your friend will know when they feel they have enough confidence to keep a GTP......and when they feel it I do hope that they go ahead and get themselves one.......having the self awareness to know that they are not quite in that place to be aware of when they might need help or things might be going wrong is a very good personal trait and something that is really looked for in the field of psychology.......... and this is because it means the person will be vigilant enough to ASK and intuitive enough to sense when things are wrong and wont be shy to come forward and ask for help instead of pretending they 'know it all'
Good Luck
Elizabeth
Longqui, experienced keeper and an expert are two different things although not necessarily mutually exclusive. Experts are usually specialists and experienced keepers are usually competent in more than one small subset of herpetoculture ...... to put it simply. Neither is a title or a status because both entities are so arbitrary.
Great post Fantazmic.
At the end of the day there will always be someone more experienced than yourself and they may not have necessarily been around or involved for as long. Open mindedness is also important, I have come across a few people that are more experienced than myself and have discounted valid information or ideas on account of me being a newbie. being more experienced than someone doesn't mean there is nothing new to learn from them.
At the end of the day there will always be someone more experienced than yourself and they may not have necessarily been around or involved for as long. Open mindedness is also important, I have come across a few people that are more experienced than myself and have discounted valid information or ideas on account of me being a newbie. being more experienced than someone doesn't mean there is nothing new to learn from them.
Fantazmic
Very Well-Known Member
Hi Michael
I get what you are saying.....but at some point the 'experienced' breeder in order to become competent in more than one subset or herptoculture had to feel confident enough to step out of their comfort zone and try something new. So if your friend was saying 'when will I be experienced" it is more about when will I be confident enough to keep growing and learning the next thing.........I am not sure what makes an expert.........and what the criteria for that would be.......having enough experience that over many years you ahve experienced everything ???? Id be a bit scared of someone labelling themselves as an expert....means they perhaps think they dont have anythng more to learn. However maybe others may look at that persons knowledge and decide to label it expert in terms of that knowlege being greater than the majority.
Hi Steve
there is something about the term 'lifelong learning' that is coming into my mind....from my days in education....something about never stopping learning even though you leave school....there is something depressing and a bit exciting about it at the same time dont you think?
I get what you are saying.....but at some point the 'experienced' breeder in order to become competent in more than one subset or herptoculture had to feel confident enough to step out of their comfort zone and try something new. So if your friend was saying 'when will I be experienced" it is more about when will I be confident enough to keep growing and learning the next thing.........I am not sure what makes an expert.........and what the criteria for that would be.......having enough experience that over many years you ahve experienced everything ???? Id be a bit scared of someone labelling themselves as an expert....means they perhaps think they dont have anythng more to learn. However maybe others may look at that persons knowledge and decide to label it expert in terms of that knowlege being greater than the majority.
Hi Steve
there is something about the term 'lifelong learning' that is coming into my mind....from my days in education....something about never stopping learning even though you leave school....there is something depressing and a bit exciting about it at the same time dont you think?
longqi
Very Well-Known Member
Continuing to learn is the main thing that keeps me going
It is awesome to just pick up a single word or sentence that gives you a different insight
It is awesome to just pick up a single word or sentence that gives you a different insight
I get what you are saying too. However, we have accept that there are many amongst us who have no intentions or interest to progress past their Charlie the python, such is life.
I have met many experts (i.e. people that I considered to be experts) in my life and they were all invariably humble, non-assuming people, always willing to share their knowledge and expertise with others whilst admitting how little they know. And it's true, the more you know, the more questions pop up. Being expert is like having respect (in any walk of life), it has to be earned, not self-proclaimed.
I have met many experts (i.e. people that I considered to be experts) in my life and they were all invariably humble, non-assuming people, always willing to share their knowledge and expertise with others whilst admitting how little they know. And it's true, the more you know, the more questions pop up. Being expert is like having respect (in any walk of life), it has to be earned, not self-proclaimed.
However without even knowing these people I think they would all disagree with the expert label
Fantazmic
Very Well-Known Member
how come we all know who the experts are....and yes Michael you are one of them.....and yet the person who is called an expert...even though deep in their heart they probably know they are an expert...dont sort of feel that they are one.....its one of those things that it is very difficult to define I think
and I do think that when people say that dont feel experienced anough to do this or that...whether it is owning beautiful GTP (and I fit in this category) or anything else...it is about the confidence to feel that can do it....Im sticking to my guns on that one
and I do think that when people say that dont feel experienced anough to do this or that...whether it is owning beautiful GTP (and I fit in this category) or anything else...it is about the confidence to feel that can do it....Im sticking to my guns on that one
Mate, between posts, I am struggling with feeding some of my hatchlings - how can I be an expert?
Also, I realise that while I am advancing (ever so slowly) my knowledge with GTPs, it's taking away from me to attend other species, I have always been an elapid freak. .... one day I'll get back to them.
Also, I realise that while I am advancing (ever so slowly) my knowledge with GTPs, it's taking away from me to attend other species, I have always been an elapid freak. .... one day I'll get back to them.
Dipcdame
Very Well-Known Member
My point exactly .......................... and as I said, speaking with other reptile owners gives one the knowledge to know what to be able to do for your reptile. Experience comes in time, and is not instantly acquired. It takes time, learning, and lots of hands on work .... finding what works, and finding OUT what to do. It's an intangible, unmeasureable thing, and no one can really say anyone IS experienced, but that they HAVE experience. It's only with experience that one becomes an expert, but who also can quantify that??
Oh, and on that note, never aspire to be an "expert", caues an "ex" is a has-een, and a "sp(e)rt" is a drip under pressure!!
Bax155
Very Well-Known Member
You can't learn to drive a car without getting into one, therefore it's my belief that how can one know if they are capable of keeping a certain species unless they give it a go? I believe some species have been hyped up just to keep prices up, ok maybe it's just one species, some species have been given bad tags so those that keep them can boost their ego's "look at my big snake", the whole debate of who knows what or who knows more and all the petty garbage that goes on in this hobby is just ridiculous hence the reason I've started to distant myself from the scene, yes I've met some genuinely nice people but I've came into contact with more ego driven know-it-alls. Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed my time and had some laughs, mainly at other peoples expenses.
Reptile keeping is not rocket science people and don't let others make you think it is, reading is the first part of learning, hands on is the second, its how everything we learn is done, if you want to try something do it as there are plenty of people out there with more experience then you that are willing to help when asked, there will always be someone with more knowledge then yourself in what ever subject you seek information on, even if you think you know it all
Reptile keeping is not rocket science people and don't let others make you think it is, reading is the first part of learning, hands on is the second, its how everything we learn is done, if you want to try something do it as there are plenty of people out there with more experience then you that are willing to help when asked, there will always be someone with more knowledge then yourself in what ever subject you seek information on, even if you think you know it all
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