Hybrids good or bad?

[Waterrat]

We are not keeping our pet snakes for conservation. In my respectful opinion the only reason that bloodlines play a part in a snake's heritage is health and/or reproductive ability, but there are many people who have snakes that will never breed them. I understand that many people on this site are snake breeders but the lineage of a captive carpet snake has no more relevance to the genetic identity of the breed than a corgi does to a timber wolf. As I understand it DNA testing can differentiate between Australian and foreign GTP's- why not hybrids?

I respect your opinion. Just one thing - you have forgotten the legality of cross breeding. You pet snake is still considered to be a "wildlife" whether you like it or not.

 

[roobz]

The question was not whether it was legal to own them, it was if they were good, or bad. Marijuana is illegal, but many people enjoy smoking it. I do not think it is "bad".

 

[Southside Morelia]

Hi,

I have recently produced a clutch of hybrid gtp's x jaguar carpet Carpondro's, whats everyone's view on this?

One of the hatchlings

What do we think?...Ummm thats an ugly animal.

Of course that was a joke and its a cracker for sure and as Ash has said, it will be great to see how that little stunner colours up. Can you keep us posted as I would love to see how the Chondro genes influence its progressive colour.
Beautiful at this age none the less...well done.
Any pics of the parents?

 

[Cockney_Red]

The question was not whether it was legal to own them, it was if they were good, or bad. Marijuana is illegal, but many people enjoy smoking it. I do not think it is "bad".

It is bad, it makes you very hungry and talk cow manure....

 

[roobz]

Oh, by the way, I keep turtles and frogs, and have no snakes. I was told in high school biology that if an animal produced fertile young it was not considered a different species. Does this still apply?

 

[RickLeekong]

Im a purist, i agree they are beautiful ''hybrids'' but in the long term scheme of things we should focus on preserving species, its meddlesome to fool around with this unless its monitored and each hybrid crossing is declared and this info is passed onto the buyer. I indeed agree with selective breeding amongst a species, but hybridising, without monitoring, we could let pure lines slip away unnoticed.

 

[morelia-mental]

This is the dame

The sire is the jag in this picture

The dame again showing her Gravid colouring

 

[moosenoose]

I respect your opinion. Just one thing - you have forgotten the legality of cross breeding. You pet snake is still considered to be a "wildlife" whether you like it or not.

The other thing you also need to keep in mind is that none of your animals are in fact your property. You just pay for the right to keep them (much like a person’s privilege in being allowed to drive a car). Hence the reason authorities can interfere, confiscate and scrutinize what hobbyists keep at their discretion.

What I find bothersome is that these same officials seem more focused on hobbyists than conservation in general. Why? Because we’re easy targets and we bring in revenue.

I spent 6 months casually chasing up an offense in regards to killing wildlife during the height of the Queensland flooding. It was blatant disregard to wildlife with what these perpetrators were doing, illegal, and in addition to that they had committed firearms offenses. The end result: a slap on the wrist because they were “dreaded” snakes. Had they been shooting koalas or some other soft and cuddly Australian, I honestly believe they’d have been crucified for it. It just further enhances the double standards portrayed in relation to reptiles.

There seems to be laws (legal loopholes) protecting the general public which pretty much allows them to go hell for leather in regards to killing snakes without much consequence, and another law for those keep, breed and show some interest in conservation and awareness to be prosecuted if they put a hair out of place because supposedly “we should know better”.

So the point of all of this is why can’t hobbyists breed hybrids? Or why shouldn’t they? Some States don’t mind, whereas others do. The main point is that hybrids of a certain breed are infertile once the divide between certain species becomes too great, so what’s the issue? We’ve got cats, dogs, foxes , toads, carp and a zillion other problems out there that are breeding their way around the country, but we are focusing on this?? Surely there are better things for the authorities to be doing with their time than this? Respectfully

 

[RickLeekong]

The other thing you also need to keep in mind is that none of your animals are in fact your property. You just pay for the right to keep them (much like a person’s privilege in being allowed to drive a car). Hence the reason authorities can interfere, confiscate and scrutinize what hobbyists keep at their discretion.

What I find bothersome is that these same officials seem more focused on hobbyists than conservation in general. Why? Because we’re easy targets and we bring in revenue.

I spent 6 months casually chasing up an offense in regards to killing wildlife during the height of the Queensland flooding. It was blatant disregard to wildlife with what these perpetrators were doing, illegal, and in addition to that they had committed firearms offenses. The end result: a slap on the wrist because they were “dreaded” snakes. Had they been shooting koalas or some other soft and cuddly Australian, I honestly believe they’d have been crucified for it. It just further enhances the double standards portrayed in relation to reptiles.

There seems to be laws (legal loopholes) protecting the general public which pretty much allows them to go hell for leather in regards to killing snakes without much consequence, and another law for those keep, breed and show some interest in conservation and awareness to be prosecuted if they put a hair out of place because supposedly “we should know better”.

So the point of all of this is why can’t hobbyists breed hybrids? Or why shouldn’t they? Some States don’t mind, whereas others do. The main point is that hybrids of a certain breed are infertile once the divide between certain species becomes too great, so what’s the issue? We’ve got cats, dogs, foxes , toads, carp and a zillion other problems out there that are breeding their way around the country, but we are focusing on this?? Surely there are better things for the authorities to be doing with their time than this? Respectfully

agreed

 

[graphitebeans]

I'm not sure if this is part of the issue, but isn't it difficult to add more animals to the captive gene pool? Do a lot of the amateur breeders breed animals from the same bloodline? I would assume that inbreeding would be an issue for the small-scale breeders.
I'm a purist when it comes to Aussie pythons - they are so amazing and diverse without our help.
Your snake is truly beautiful, probably because this was an accidental crossing. However I don't agree with forcing these animals to cross-breed. The dame obviously thought that the sire was a better choice in this situation. That's part of natural selection. If we only provide pairings that we think should breed we are effectively playing god with the offspring (which seems to be one of the big arguments against hybridism) and we won't necessarily end up with optimal pairings. It makes the water muddy, because obviously when given the choice of the same-species male or a male of another species she chose the other species male. We don't have any idea why she did that, but there must have been something unsatisfactory about the male she was supposed to be breeding with, otherwise she would have chosen him.
I'm rambling now, so I'm going to shut up.
I hope that made sense :lol:

 

[Morgan_dragon]

Rpm?? sorry for my ignorance

Reduced Pattern Morph...I think they are similar/same as Jags? (please dont slam my ignorance here if I'm wrong, still on a massive learning curve about alot of our snakes).

 

[Waterrat]

Reduced pattern can be achieved by selective breeding. Jags have the jag gene. (you better not ask where it came from LOL)

 

[Morgan_dragon]

Reduced pattern can be achieved by selective breeding. Jags have the jag gene. (you better not ask where it came from LOL)

I actually did lol, I know the gene pool of my little guy but have no clue as to the jags....

 

[nervous]

I'm a purist when it comes to Aussie pythons - they are so amazing and diverse without our help.
Your snake is truly beautiful, probably because this was an accidental crossing. However I don't agree with forcing these animals to cross-breed. The dame obviously thought that the sire was a better choice in this situation. That's part of natural selection. If we only provide pairings that we think should breed we are effectively playing god with the offspring (which seems to be one of the big arguments against hybridism) and we won't necessarily end up with optimal pairings.

i dont understand why some ppl are suggesting the breeder is playing "GOD"? if that is the case then pretty much every breeder is play "GOD" whether they are hybrids, crosses or pure! we are choosing the mate for our pythons or pets in general to breed with! so to say that a hybrid breeder is playing "GOD" you most well say that even purist breeders are playing "GOD" as they themselves choose who there pythons breed to.

 

[carterd]

Ben you are correct with your thinking. Now take playing "GOD"/Man out of the picture, what are you left with.

Does everyone think they will stay yellow, or turn Green.

 

[nervous]

Ben you are correct with your thinking. Now take playing "GOD"/Man out of the picture, what are you left with.

well you are left with a reptile, a snake, a python and the most important... a pet.

o forgot to say that this jagpondro is a cracker hatchling... fingers x it stays that way, but based on the other carpondros etc.. i think a color change will be pending in the near future.

 

[graphitebeans]

My point with the god comment was that any artificial pairing - that is any pairing occurring as a result of captive breeding and outside the 'natural' scheme of things - can be considered "playing god".
Natural selection only works if there's a selection.

 

[Waterrat]

Gee, you made my day.
Everybody, please address me as "God" from now on. Mr. God would be fine too. Mods, can you change my user name to God? I'll be changing my avatar tomorrow.

Seriously, natural selection is one thing, this hobby is another, responsibility and integrity towards wildlife is yet another, and there is also the law. Did I forget ethics? After this long sentence, I have to tell you - I am not a purist (just because I breed natives) ..... but I love this God title, it's got a ring to it.

 

[-Katana-]

Gee, you made my day.
Everybody, please address me as "God" from now on. Mr. God would be fine too. Mods, can you change my user name to God? I'll be changing my avatar tomorrow.

Seriously, natural selection is one thing, this hobby is another, responsibility and integrity towards wildlife is yet another, and there is also the law. Did I forget ethics? After this long sentence, I have to tell you - I am not a purist (just because I breed natives) ..... but I love this God title, it's got a ring to it.

Pleased ta meat ya Mr.God!

ummm...Mr. God, are ya the vengeful, wrathful god needing regular virgin sacrifices lest you unleash plague and pestilence upon the earth?

Sorry...I couldn't find any virgins to sacrifice.
I was wondering if a buck fifty in change and all my pocket lint will do and we agree that you wipe out New Zealand instead...m'kay?

 

[graphitebeans]

Dude, I just thought the "god " argument was dumb and was trying to illustrate that. You really took it the wrong way and I'm sorry for that.
I find your arguments to be quite persuasive.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, and I will forevermore refer to you by your newly requested title.
Amen.