Jungleland
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lol..
Healthy it has been, but still some people have just proven they really should stay out of these
I'm surprised you did'nt, that would have save us 15 pages to read
Striped Diamond holdbacks
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Thank you Serp, means a lot from you. Problem is, how many people are contributing to this thread? A select few.
The other thousands of members are all making their own opinions up behind the scenes. They read something a 14 year old wrote and decide its gospel and so on the perception and belief flows. I have photographed, well I cant even say how many snakes in the past few years, and the amount of people who have obvious intergrades sold to them as diamonds, or hybrids in their collections without knowing is appauling. Its only going to get worse with this...
So good luck to the striped 'Diamond' owners, would I like one, sure. I certainly wouldnt call it a Diamond, probably wouldn't try and breed and and most CERTAINLY wouldn't be selling one to some d head who is going to cross it with his Jungle...
The other thousands of members are all making their own opinions up behind the scenes. They read something a 14 year old wrote and decide its gospel and so on the perception and belief flows. I have photographed, well I cant even say how many snakes in the past few years, and the amount of people who have obvious intergrades sold to them as diamonds, or hybrids in their collections without knowing is appauling. Its only going to get worse with this...
So good luck to the striped 'Diamond' owners, would I like one, sure. I certainly wouldnt call it a Diamond, probably wouldn't try and breed and and most CERTAINLY wouldn't be selling one to some d head who is going to cross it with his Jungle...
"I'm surprised you did'nt, that would have save us 15 pages to read"
I don't know why you come into this now? And as much as anyone's comments here are water off a ducks back to me, is there a need to add those comments?
If my thoughts have meant nothing to you, why didnt you stop 10 pages ago? Because you, like everyone else is interested in this. I have nothing against you, never have, why don't you give us your opinion?
Seems to be that there are S.. LOADS of people thinking, EXACTLY what I am saying. I will argue till I am blue in the face, believe me, its my job, but at least offer something thoughtful..
I don't know why you come into this now? And as much as anyone's comments here are water off a ducks back to me, is there a need to add those comments?
If my thoughts have meant nothing to you, why didnt you stop 10 pages ago? Because you, like everyone else is interested in this. I have nothing against you, never have, why don't you give us your opinion?
Seems to be that there are S.. LOADS of people thinking, EXACTLY what I am saying. I will argue till I am blue in the face, believe me, its my job, but at least offer something thoughtful..
Jungleland
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As i said earlier I got your point , I'm not reasoning for the animals in question but waht gets me is when someone speculate about other peoples animals.
Now You did'nt think I use enough smileys on my post?
As healthy discussion as it seems, I think you are a lttle bit uptight.
You can argue as much as you want I promise you that i'm not here to stop you.
Cheers
Here is just 1 of GOD KNOWS how many examples, of a U.S keeper purchasing a, wait for it, CHENYEI.
Look anything like one to you? Of course not, but hey get used to these, coming to a breeder near you when we start calling these Diamonds, cause hey this is just a morph yeah?..
Look anything like one to you? Of course not, but hey get used to these, coming to a breeder near you when we start calling these Diamonds, cause hey this is just a morph yeah?..
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BROWNS
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Fact is the old pure diamond and intergrade discussion has been flogged to death over theyears on this forumwith many people posting pics to show what they mean just as you have pugs,i guess it's good for the new comers to the hobby to get a better understanding and i understand your reasons behind the arguement as we already have a gene pool contaminated with crosses and god knows what being called whatever people want and we don't need anymore of this in the hobby.
At the end of the day we have only the breeders word to trust and as for myself i don't know him at all and the animals look extremely suspect to me however it can be proved as N Mutton said and i would also like to see some more proof or evidence such as if the parents have bred before and if they've produced these types before as it is possible for random mutations to pop up,hypo bredli are nothing new but striped ones are so i see no reason why it an't happen in pure diamonds.It can be proved so hopefully it will be and we can put this matter to rest,that just leaves the thousands of other doubtful pure diamonds out there that will keep being passed off as pure even if they aren't and unless you can get full background histor on your diamonds you can fully trust i feel it's going to be extremely hard to tell pure from intergrade or cross as has been shown already.
One thing though i can't get past is saying that yes the parents look pure but their grandparents might or must have some intergade in them??/HUH??/If they had intergrade in them a couple of generations ago they still have it in them now and don't just suddenly change to pure and if these were in fact collected from Gosford the heart of pure diamond territory then as has been said they could just as well be mutations not like an albino which is a bit different but odd things happen just like striped bredli.I've seen a jungle i was certain was diamond but was wc and definitely not a diamond,there is also huge variability in diamonds from what i have seen many pushing the boundries of what a pure diamond is and intergrades that look pure diamond also and likewise with diamonds that can appear to be pure intergrades.I would like to see some more information on the animals in question though,that would help a lot!!!
Now where's the popcorn and billy i'm hungry and straight,that's just not on:lol:
At the end of the day we have only the breeders word to trust and as for myself i don't know him at all and the animals look extremely suspect to me however it can be proved as N Mutton said and i would also like to see some more proof or evidence such as if the parents have bred before and if they've produced these types before as it is possible for random mutations to pop up,hypo bredli are nothing new but striped ones are so i see no reason why it an't happen in pure diamonds.It can be proved so hopefully it will be and we can put this matter to rest,that just leaves the thousands of other doubtful pure diamonds out there that will keep being passed off as pure even if they aren't and unless you can get full background histor on your diamonds you can fully trust i feel it's going to be extremely hard to tell pure from intergrade or cross as has been shown already.
One thing though i can't get past is saying that yes the parents look pure but their grandparents might or must have some intergade in them??/HUH??/If they had intergrade in them a couple of generations ago they still have it in them now and don't just suddenly change to pure and if these were in fact collected from Gosford the heart of pure diamond territory then as has been said they could just as well be mutations not like an albino which is a bit different but odd things happen just like striped bredli.I've seen a jungle i was certain was diamond but was wc and definitely not a diamond,there is also huge variability in diamonds from what i have seen many pushing the boundries of what a pure diamond is and intergrades that look pure diamond also and likewise with diamonds that can appear to be pure intergrades.I would like to see some more information on the animals in question though,that would help a lot!!!
Now where's the popcorn and billy i'm hungry and straight,that's just not on:lol:
Yes I am getting uptight, spot on. Because it 5 years time when every second thread is a "What type of snake did I buy?" Or, "I think I bought a Hybrid?" or, "The breeder told me it was pure.." ETC ETC
We can all look back can't we...
We can all look back can't we...
Jungleland
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Yes I am getting uptight, spot on. Because it 5 years time when every second thread is a "What type of snake did I buy?" Or, "I think I bought a Hybrid?" or, "The breeder told me it was pure.." ETC ETC
We can all look back can't we...[/quote}
Relax pugs
Unfortunately that is questions will have on top of our heads
"One thing though i can't get past is saying that yes the parents look pure but their grandparents might or must have some intergade in them??/HUH??/If they had intergrade in them a couple of generations ago they still have it in them now and don't just suddenly change to pure and if these were in fact collected from Gosford the heart of pure diamond territory then as has been said they could just as well be mutations not like an albino which is a bit different but odd things happen just like striped bredli.I've seen a jungle i was certain was diamond but was wc and definitely not a diamond,there is also huge variability in diamonds from what i have seen many pushing the boundries of what a pure diamond is and intergrades that look pure diamond also and likewise with diamonds that can appear to be pure intergrades."
I didn't say they all of a sudden came pure then intergrade again, they have ALWAYS had intergrade in them, meaning even though they may 'look' pure, I still suspect they are intergrades. Thats just me.
Secondly, Gosford the heart of Diamond territory? Since when? Not even close IMO mate.
At the end of the day, again, we are obviously going to agree to disagree. As I am not changing my opinion, and neither are 'the believers'. But, in 5 years lets take a look back hey.
I didn't say they all of a sudden came pure then intergrade again, they have ALWAYS had intergrade in them, meaning even though they may 'look' pure, I still suspect they are intergrades. Thats just me.
Secondly, Gosford the heart of Diamond territory? Since when? Not even close IMO mate.
At the end of the day, again, we are obviously going to agree to disagree. As I am not changing my opinion, and neither are 'the believers'. But, in 5 years lets take a look back hey.
M
MrBredli
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Browns, intergrades are known to throw a whole range of patterns in one clutch; Diamonds aren't (not in terms of patterns such as we see in this thread). I could believe that the two 'parents' pictured were the most Diamond-looking of an entire F1 intergrade clutch, and that they threw the clutch they are claimed to have thrown. But i can't believe 2 pure Diamonds would produce offspring like that, not unless i see some evidence to support it.
I just liked the song so I was singing the next line . I thought we were having a sing along instead of popcorn for a change.:lol::lol::lol: Yes I am insane.
But I must say everything that pugs is saying makes sense and I would think along the same lines until I had some solid proof of lineage
. I thought we were having a sing along instead of popcorn for a change.:lol::lol::lol: Yes I am insane.But I must say everything that pugs is saying makes sense and I would think along the same lines until I had some solid proof of lineage
BROWNS
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I agree i would like to see further proof also which hasn't been forthcoming.If they have bred before,how many times and which generations etc produced the animals in question.It was said the rest of the siblings were classic looking diamonds but that's about it.As for Gosford not being pure diamond locality are you telling me it's not?It may not be right in the guts of it but still well within range of pure diamonds is it not?
Like i've said if these were shown to me and my opinion asked i'd say intergrade or cross al the way and that's what they look like,i'm just not so quick to disqualifythe fact they may be a random mutaton which i would like to see more proof on also!!
Now pass the billy:lol:
Like i've said if these were shown to me and my opinion asked i'd say intergrade or cross al the way and that's what they look like,i'm just not so quick to disqualifythe fact they may be a random mutaton which i would like to see more proof on also!!
Now pass the billy:lol:
PhilK
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1. How do I know you aren't a 14 year old? (I know you're not, but my point stands.)
2. Are you saying a striped Diamond isn't a diamond....?
Let's go real basic here. Bredli are defined by their irregular blotches (as are coastals etc).. if it is a striped bredli or striped coastal, it is still a coastal or bredli.
But if a diamond is a striped diamond it isn't a diamond? I know I'm chiming in late but I'm thoroughly confused.
I suggest you read the whole thread.. You keep bringing points up already discussed.
1. I am 24, 6'2", 100kg. Brown hair blue eyes, like long walks on the beach and throwing darts at my Kevin07 Dartboard..
2. I have already written my say on that. But again, a striped bredli looks like? A striped Bredli... A striped 'Diamond' looks like?? An Intergrade! (Or even Coastal).
Point? Stripes in coastals and bredli are becoming common, and they do not change what the particular snake looks like at all. A striped jungle is a striped jungle. A striped Diamond, IMO there is, and never has been any such thing.
I freeeeeely admit this is ONLY my opinion (supported by several MUCH more experienced herpers both on here and not.) And if I/we are wrong so be it. That wont change at all however, what impact this can, is, and will have on the hobby.
1. I am 24, 6'2", 100kg. Brown hair blue eyes, like long walks on the beach and throwing darts at my Kevin07 Dartboard..
2. I have already written my say on that. But again, a striped bredli looks like? A striped Bredli... A striped 'Diamond' looks like?? An Intergrade! (Or even Coastal).
Point? Stripes in coastals and bredli are becoming common, and they do not change what the particular snake looks like at all. A striped jungle is a striped jungle. A striped Diamond, IMO there is, and never has been any such thing.
I freeeeeely admit this is ONLY my opinion (supported by several MUCH more experienced herpers both on here and not.) And if I/we are wrong so be it. That wont change at all however, what impact this can, is, and will have on the hobby.
PhilK
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Since when do people I.D on patterns etc? I always thought that was the most unreliable way to I.D anything. We've got to the point where we can breed BHPs without black heads.. I'm pretty sure we can join some rosettes into a line on a diamond.
As for there never being such a thing.. There was never such thing as a car either, but people made that. Never such thing as an Australian Stock Horse, but people bred them...
EDIT: just 'cause you say you aren't 14 it doesn't make it so, on the net. I could say I was Mel Brookes.
As for there never being such a thing.. There was never such thing as a car either, but people made that. Never such thing as an Australian Stock Horse, but people bred them...
EDIT: just 'cause you say you aren't 14 it doesn't make it so, on the net. I could say I was Mel Brookes.
indicus
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You've made some good points Pug's and others..... and i cant say i disagree/or agree with all you've said...However; keep in mind mate; your just having a guess at whether the pic's Boa posted are actually intergrades....understandably they do appear very odd as far as Diamonds go IMO; but i've not done the hard yards to really comment (nice animals regardless Boa )
The best to comment on such animals; is someone who has/ or spends considerable time in the field looking at this form of python.....even then; i myself have found; you'll always come across something that throws you; just when you think your onto it; an odd cape york or jungle displays pattern or colouration that's really quite different.....I often say; the more we learn; the more we realise we don't know....(keeps it interesting)
Either way; forget what your mates/experts tell you; put the time in the field; and see for yourself....
i think you will soon realise; it's not so black and white.....good luck in your endeavours.
)The best to comment on such animals; is someone who has/ or spends considerable time in the field looking at this form of python.....even then; i myself have found; you'll always come across something that throws you; just when you think your onto it; an odd cape york or jungle displays pattern or colouration that's really quite different.....I often say; the more we learn; the more we realise we don't know....(keeps it interesting)
Either way; forget what your mates/experts tell you; put the time in the field; and see for yourself....
i think you will soon realise; it's not so black and white.....good luck in your endeavours.
Yes browns its in there. JUST in my opinion, but apparently something like Forster is there limits... Which would be FAR more likely of where these animals originated, and a place I don't think should be included, as they are much different from the Southern Spilota Spilota.
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