Help join the protest against the new OEH laws for reptile keeping in NSW

[ackiekid01]

What are the sizes for the monitor cages I can't find them any where

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Who came up with the cage sizes anyway? Like who advised the government on what they should be?

I think its a bit over the top considering the people that neglect their animals are not going to care at all and this wont stop them.

How often do you guys get inspections down there? And how are they going to visit every reptile keeper in the state and measure their enclosures? Lol the government cracks me up sometimes they have no idea.

The "government" basically took advice from the exoert group and then discarded the lot of it and came up with their own formula. The bureaucrat who was pushing this at NPWS is now working for the RSPCA.

Jamie

 

[wokka]

The "government" basically took advice from the exoert group and then discarded the lot of it and came up with their own formula. The bureaucrat who was pushing this at NPWS is now working for the RSPCA.

Jamie

I am not sure that was the case Jamie. I think the government came up with their own formula and then got advice from the expert group to give the process credibility. Unfortunately I think we were conned!

 

[shanesaussie_pythons]

It took many years of keeping in large cages that with snakes that would not settler breeding really think a lot of people either weren't around back then or they don't understand it took sertian keepers years of trial and error cageing Australian snakes before a certain few led the way in learning what got them to settle and start to breed and we learnt how to make pets of them and reptile keying started to grow because of it and they are now asked to step back 20 years I ask why there are what I call taxonimist keepers who keep there stock in massive cages just to look at them and they beleavethats what should happen but we are pet keepers it took us years to learn this the future scares me my thoughts

 

[champagne]

The cage sizes aren't that bad, yes it will effect large breeders but will have very little effect on most keepers

 

[saximus]

.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

It always amazes me how the single most important factor in all of this is not the stipulated enclosure sizes, or any of the other CoP impositions on keepers in NSW. The most important matter here is one of principle - that a couple of individuals in a couple of Government departments (OEH and DII), without producing ANY evidence of the need for this code of practice, can spend a lot of time (and waste hundreds of hours of experienced individuals' time whose recommendations were rejected out of hand) cooking up this document, and bringing it into law with the support of the Minister, despite her meeting with Dr Peter Harlow from Taronga and Dr Glenn Shea from the University of Sydney to discuss thye advisory group's objections. The final couple of years of the development of the CoP were done in secrecy when it became evident that the best reptile minds in NSW were opposed to mandatory regs, rather than an educational document of recommendations.

The conduct of the government officers involved has been manipulative and disgraceful, and the Minister was less than helpful. These factors alone far outweigh any impact the CoP will have on keepers in general, and have consigned any notion of cooperatively working together with government to achieve better outcomes for keepers and their pets to the dustbin of history.

Jamie

 

[ronhalling]

It always amazes me how the single most important factor in all of this is not the stipulated enclosure sizes, or any of the other CoP impositions on keepers in NSW. The most important matter here is one of principle - that a couple of individuals in a couple of Government departments (OEH and DII), without producing ANY evidence of the need for this code of practice, can spend a lot of time (and waste hundreds of hours of experienced individuals' time whose recommendations were rejected out of hand) cooking up this document, and bringing it into law with the support of the Minister, despite her meeting with Dr Peter Harlow from Taronga and Dr Glenn Shea from the University of Sydney to discuss thye advisory group's objections. The final couple of years of the development of the CoP were done in secrecy when it became evident that the best reptile minds in NSW were opposed to mandatory regs, rather than an educational document of recommendations.

The conduct of the government officers involved has been manipulative and disgraceful, and the Minister was less than helpful. These factors alone far outweigh any impact the CoP will have on keepers in general, and have consigned any notion of cooperatively working together with government to achieve better outcomes for keepers and their pets to the dustbin of history.

Jamie

Very well said Jamie, i would have thought the smoke from the fires of rightious indignation would have settled by now, but i was wrong again, when is everyone going to get it into their collective heads that this useless document is only ever going to be of any value to those who have a bad concience and think their reps are being held in sub-standard conditions, Have any of those that the COP has frightened ever tried to get NPWS, DERM or any of the other reptile governing bodies to do anything, ? Yes well you know how hard it was, So everyone should realize that unless you bring yourself into the spotlight of your local reptile authority then the COP is irrelavent, and in my honest opinion if "YOU" think you are keeping your rep in conditions that "YOU" think are suitable to a healthy and happy life then "YOU" probably are and no amount of useless documents are going to change how "YOU" think. If a study was done taking a representative amount of herpers in NSW say 500 people they would probably find that at least 90% of those in the study kept their herps in larger enclosures than the COP requires and a further 8% of enclosures were within the COP requirements and the last 2% were like all studies and undetermined. How about we get back to enjoying our reps again without feeling like a criminal for what is in all probability no problem.....just my 3.7 cents worth. .....................................Ron

 

[Bredli1956]

How rediculess not even zoo enclosures are that big for reptiles

 

[Pythoninfinite]

You're spot-on Ron. As you say, most keepers of smaller numbers of snakes (and they are by far the majority) are very generous with regard to the facilities they offer their snakes. Those who negelcted their animals before this CoP came into being will continue to do so. I understand the notion of a CoP had its genesis following a visit by these individuals to a facility where large numbers of venomous snakes are kept for venom production, and their sensitivities were offended by the accommodation offered to these snakes. I've seen the facility myself on several occasions - the snakes are healthy and active, and although it is designed with an eye for keeper safety as well (they are, after all, handling some of the most dangerous snakes in the world on a very regular basis), The needs of the animals are very well taken care of, of course, because they are a significant source of revenue for the facility.

The whole thing was driven by a couple of individuals whose ideological views were allowed to prevail, and who manipulated the messages to their political masters. A group of keepers who were INVITED by the Dept to collaborate with them in the development of a document, and who have collectively have in excess of 300 years experience with captive reptile management, were totally excluded from the process when it became obvious that their views were not aligned with the outcome the Dept sought. As I said in my last post, at no time was any evidence produced to support the need for mandated enclosure sizes.

Jamie

 

[Wilfred]

Where are we up to on this topic

 

[Ramsayi]

Although two NSW expos have already taken place this year we still have two more to go,SOFAR and Illawarra.Perhaps a table can be set up at both asking people to sign a petition that can then be forwarded on to the minister.

 

[shanesaussie_pythons]

I was told that that if you are inspected. And if your cages do not meat COP sizes that they will most likely give an official warning and possibly 6more months to comply. Now I heard this from another keeper so don't quote me .But this last 12months I have tryed to increase some of my pythons to the new sizes but most of my stock have spent the last 16 years in the one size encloses and unfortunately one of the most stressfull things to pet pythons is to change there habitat . But to also increase the sizes was to much they first became flighty and didn't eat as we'll and eventually respitory illnesses started to effect all my long term adults and every one was captive bred so they just didn't handle it I don't want to loose every one it took me many years to learn how to make them into the magnificent pets they became and it was all due to decreasing cage size until they were happy how do I know they liked smaller cage sizes than I used 17 years ago.I know because I watched them thrive by the way they handled the way they were eating and the way they bred it was great to see this hobby take off .I just hope it keeps going the youth of New South Wales need it to I just wish they asked long term keepers for what they thoughts the only part of a pythons body that I have ever seen them try to stretch is there Jaw they don't need to stretch out straight . They are prehensile . Now I'm only talking about cageing pythons but I'm told it effects everyone monitor keepers but I have joined the protest shane

 

[borntobnude]

If these people Really cared about the Animals you would think that a table or two would be sought at ALL Expos to help and Educate the Hobby .
Having been to many Travel expos there is usually a NSWNPWS table ---with maps and lots of user info . Its not hard is it ?? ..
Maybe these people are the same ones that think BOLLARDS in national parks is the answer to Everything !!