Kersten
Very Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, I don't think there's many here who don't realise that QLDMorelias....I don't think many have exclusively pointed the finger at designer snakes. Hybrids in general seem to be the order of the day.
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pythons73
Very Well-Known Member
If you think designer snakes is the way of the future i think yourve been smoking too much grass,imo. 90-95% of ppl i no, would prefer pure snakes anyday over a cross-hybrid.They are here and so are exotics,theres nothing that can be done about that.Id prefer to spend my $$$ on pure snakes anyday,if they were meant to be like that,god wouldve created it.If you Qldmorelias are so happy about these snakes why dont you show your real identity,what you live in NSW,QLD N.T come on,who are you trying to kid....
QldMorelias
Not so new Member
Rob
Why is that rubbish. Hundreds of thousands of breeders across the world who have been and done what is happening here in Australia have headed in the designer snake direction. Yes, wild type reptiles are beautiful in their own respect and certainly have a massive place in Oz herp and there will always be people keeping and maintaing what they think are wild type carpets. But times and trends are changing in an ever increasing amount of peoples opinions here in OZ, just as it did in other parts of the world.
You only have to look at the difference in response to this thread in comparison to ones in the past. It is already happening
Why is that rubbish. Hundreds of thousands of breeders across the world who have been and done what is happening here in Australia have headed in the designer snake direction. Yes, wild type reptiles are beautiful in their own respect and certainly have a massive place in Oz herp and there will always be people keeping and maintaing what they think are wild type carpets. But times and trends are changing in an ever increasing amount of peoples opinions here in OZ, just as it did in other parts of the world.
You only have to look at the difference in response to this thread in comparison to ones in the past. It is already happening
QldMorelias
Not so new Member
Not the whole identity thing again: why would someone post on the internet who they are. I keep to a very small group of old school herps, who helped pioneer this hobby and are helping move into the future.You would have never of heard of me before and that was for my own preference and thats the way it stays. The different locations is representing other herps in our circle of friends.
Lets face it pythons 73, 90-95% of your mates does not represent the whole community, I think if you look at the poll, you will see a different story representing over 2000 people. Yes, that doesnt represent the whole herp community, but it is a far cry from your 90-95% of your mates.
Sorry buddy I have to agree with Qldmorelias. Although I keep only pure snakes, designer snakes are defiantly going to come in, in a big way over the next few years. Globally and locally there's too much evidence to support an ever increasing trend for new colors, patterns and different looking animals. There is room for both sides of the hobby here in oz, wether it be designer or not. The purists have had the voice of the herp community for so long now that some change is going to painful....
Vixen
Very Well-Known Member
And look at all the people overseas whinging and crying to be in Australia, so they can get their hands on our pure native stock, as even THEY realise finding pure animals is becoming a lost cause. I would NEVER trust buying anything from any of the breeders over there even if they claim it is pure, look at the mess they have already made of their stock.
God help us all !
:lol:
Den from Den Pythons
Very Well-Known Member
We have access to pure animals here in Aus to replenish stocks (illegally in many cases), in America they obviously don't, hence the winging...
jasonryles810
Active Member
and still it goes on...
hybrids are here to stay
pure breds are here to stay as well
get over it
hybrids are here to stay
pure breds are here to stay as well
get over it
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QldMorelias
Not so new Member
You are probabaly right, but in my opinion designer snakes/Hybrids are the same thing. Like I said picking a hybrid being misrepresented as a clean line is fairly easy.
eg Krefts so called Murray Darling
Jet_1
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Sorry people but I am still confused about the whole hybrid argument.....what exactly is the problem?
The definition of hybrid is something that is changed from an exisitng action/form into a preferred one....this includes a cross between populations within defined species or subspecies.....?
Further all of the arguments regarding naturally occurring morphs in my opinion are equally flawed....whist the morph or colour pattern is naturally occurring-continually line breeding to consistantly reproduce that colour/pattern is not. .
The definition of hybrid is something that is changed from an exisitng action/form into a preferred one....this includes a cross between populations within defined species or subspecies.....?
Further all of the arguments regarding naturally occurring morphs in my opinion are equally flawed....whist the morph or colour pattern is naturally occurring-continually line breeding to consistantly reproduce that colour/pattern is not. .
Kersten
Very Well-Known Member
In that case it was. It's not always so.
Vixen
Very Well-Known Member
Thats what some people are trying to say. You can get some equally hot animals without having to hybridize.
What would you prefer?
1. A pure designer snake that looks great.
2. An animal that looks no better, but is a mix of so many different species you lose count?!
I know which id choose. I have no problem with people line breeding to produce designer animals, as long as it remains esentially pure, ie the one subspecies.
Look at Joels reduce pattern coastals for an example. They are my absolute DREAM snake and look much better than the animals pictured at the start of this thread. I would take these guys over anything, and they are only going to get better and better in the future.
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QldMorelias
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Jet_1
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Hi Vixen babe,
Agreed, but I dont really see the difference, eventually its not pure.....genetically neither are natural, line breeding encourages inbred animals to reproduce the colour/morph......I realise not everone does this, but many do, hence the same argument as hybrids "genteically not pure"......eg. look at the work that goes into producing recessive genes such as albinism, dont tell me that everyone who buys a pair of albino carpets out breeds them to maintain genetic diversity rather than breeding the pair that they have (often from the same clutch) in the order to get some albino babies to sell a little bit sooner?.......
Agreed, but I dont really see the difference, eventually its not pure.....genetically neither are natural, line breeding encourages inbred animals to reproduce the colour/morph......I realise not everone does this, but many do, hence the same argument as hybrids "genteically not pure"......eg. look at the work that goes into producing recessive genes such as albinism, dont tell me that everyone who buys a pair of albino carpets out breeds them to maintain genetic diversity rather than breeding the pair that they have (often from the same clutch) in the order to get some albino babies to sell a little bit sooner?.......
Jungleland
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Nice Jags QldMorelias.......
nick,
hahaha, is that it, hahaha. My typing sux, im the first to admit that. hahaha. Still dosnt change the fact that most of your post was an inacurate opinion. ( no offence).
For a start most of the hybrid breeding countries have little to no acsess to pure morelia sub-species hence the amonunt of crossing etc. This answers your query too qldmorelia.
Anybody that thinks hypo coastals, " striped " coastals and jungles are not relatively common in the wild really does need to get out more or open their eyes. And thats a fact.!!
So nick in your vast herping experiance, of a handful of years, you have never seen a wild " striped " carpet or jungle.??
hahaha, is that it, hahaha. My typing sux, im the first to admit that. hahaha. Still dosnt change the fact that most of your post was an inacurate opinion. ( no offence).
For a start most of the hybrid breeding countries have little to no acsess to pure morelia sub-species hence the amonunt of crossing etc. This answers your query too qldmorelia.
Anybody that thinks hypo coastals, " striped " coastals and jungles are not relatively common in the wild really does need to get out more or open their eyes. And thats a fact.!!
So nick in your vast herping experiance, of a handful of years, you have never seen a wild " striped " carpet or jungle.??
QldMorelias
Not so new Member
Now don't work yourselves up over this, it's almost bedtime. These photo's were sent by friends. If you go to our page you'll have a 1 in 61 chance of guessing who's they are, not that it matters. They were bred in a state where it's legal, so no laws have been broken. For the rest of you I've been told that once they start to show some colour offspring will be available.
Please, we already know which of you don't like them, and we already know what you'll say. So turn the computer off and go to bed.
Please, we already know which of you don't like them, and we already know what you'll say. So turn the computer off and go to bed.
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megrim
Active Member
After coming to this thread with no real opinion either way, and after reading through 38 (so far) pages of discussion, I'm pretty sure this is what my sentiments are turning into.
This thread has been fascinating for me, I did not even realise hybrids were an issue until joining this forum, and interesting though it has been.... I'm starting to understand the responses of "here we go again /yawn" from some people when these threads pop up.
megrim
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