Some Morelia's

[fatfrog]

Haha, fair enough. I know I certainly don't want it ending up like America.

Yahh we don't want that to happen did you know that in america everyone loves hybrids and thats why they have so many problemsbut seriously how would hybrids make this thread like america?

 

[megrim]

Crossing carpet pythons is comaprable to crossing dogs, The thing that needs to be accepted is that if we are going to continue keeping reptiles in captivity they will become domesticated and the only reason for keeping them pure (most dont even understand what that requires) in most cases is for sentimental reasons, just like some dog breeders dont like cross breeds some reptile breeders dont like them either.

I believe Sdaji started a thread about this very issue of sentimentality a while back.
'Twas a good and informative read.

Edit: Found it http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/exotics-other-reptiles/locality-purity-why-does-it-matter-89703

 

[DanTheMan]

Yahh we don't want that to happen did you know that in america everyone loves hybrids and thats why they have so many problemsbut seriously how would hybrids make this thread like america?

Haha, not the thread turning into America. I meant we don't want the hobby of reptile keeping turning into what it is over there, It's harder to find a pure animal than a Hybrid.

 

[fatfrog]

Haha, not the thread turning into America. I meant we don't want the hobby of reptile keeping turning into what it is over there, It's harder to find a pure animal than a Hybrid.

But if we were america we would just take over the country with the pure animals and keep them for ourselves but the only reason we don't have the reptiles america has is because our land is perfect for reptiles and they would take over the country

 

[Moreliaman]

Dogs are crosses, some need to read the links that cris posted on wiki.
Just like humans & other species theyve all had millions of years seperation to evolve in their own way, american wolves, european etc etc....if anything the gap is bigger than morelia.
Hybrids between different species within the same genus are sometimes known as interspecific hybrids or crosses.

As said before by plenty of people, it occurs naturally in the wild & this is going to happen wether we like it or not, its human nature, we've dont it with all the other species we've decided to keep as pets & i believe theres room in the hobby for both.
Just a pity we cant seem to hold a sensible & informative conversation over it

Amazing to think if you saw someone walking in the street with a boxer or staffy you wouldnt blink an eye, but if you saw someone walking with a pet wolf !!:shock:


Taken from wiki (the links should still work)
Hybrids in nature

Hybridisation between two closely related species is actually a common occurrence in nature. Many hybrid zones are known where the ranges of two species meet, and hybrids are continually produced in great numbers. These hybrid zones are useful as biological model systems for studying the mechanisms of speciation (Hybrid speciation). Recently DNA analysis of a bear shot by a hunter in the North West Territories confirmed the existence of naturally occurring and fertile polar bear/grizzly bear hybrids.[9] There have been reports of similar supposed hybrids, but this is the first to be confirmed by DNA analysis. In 1943, Clara Helgason described a male bear shot by hunters during her childhood. It was large and off-white with hair all over its paws. The presence of hair on the bottom of the feet suggests it was a natural hybrid of Kodiak and Polar bear.
In some species, hybridisation plays an important role in evolutionary biology. While most hybrids are disadvantaged as a result of genetic incompatibility, the fittest survive, regardless of species boundaries.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Just for the record. Dogs evolved in every part of the world. How can they be one specie then? They did not evolve from the same common ancestor. You can hardly say an African wild dog is the same specie as the north American wolf. Because people selectively bred them for things that they needed dogs to do. Natural selection was taken out of the picture. If this selection process happened in nature, taxonomists would have given them subspecies status or species status as there is enough morphological and genetical differences to justify the division. The same things apply to humans. There is more than enough differences within homo sapiens from different parts of the world to justify is being divided into subspecies. But because this could be classed as racism we just don't do it. So why are morelia any different. They more than likely all evolved from the same ancestors. And as soon as human selection is applied to them taxonomy should not be applied to them as natural selection has been taken out of the equation. You can keep going on about pure lines until you are blue in the face. The fact is that as soon as humans line breed or even just breed wild snakes in captivity, that they are interfering with the natural selection process. No matter how good their intentions. As Dave said in a previous post, we do not have access to the whole representation of a specific subspecie in captivity. We are biased to the better looking specimens as favoured by humans in our collections. Natural selection does not favour any except the ones that actually make it to adulthood in the wild. What we see as a good representation of a subspecie is is influenced by human perception. Just a few thoughts.

 

[Moreliaman]

A welcome input cordylus, But i was going on the angle that the land mass was 1 at one stage in the earths history & alot of things have evolved for 1 common ancestor & has had millions of years seperation, Im sure things would be alot different if continental split hadnt happened, has anyone here read darwins book ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species
Agreed some of the things humans cross wouldnt survive in the wild, but its amazing seeing the reaction over reptiles when virtually everything we eat is a hybrid, its been crossed for looks & ease of propergation, most vegtables and fruits are tastless now, but that doesnt stop us producing them.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Continental split happened before Homo sapiens was around. Domestic dogs have not been around for that long.

 

[Retic]

Where on Earth do you guys get your information ? In America and that other big place the Rest of the World they keep reptiles from every corner of the world, it's probably safe to say that 90% of their animals are pure. Now I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade and introduce facts into a great emotional debate but please do just a little bit of research rather than relying on some inaccurate statements on the Internet.

I meant we don't want the hobby of reptile keeping turning into what it is over there, It's harder to find a pure animal than a Hybrid.

 

[Moreliaman]

Continental split happened before Homo sapiens was around. Domestic dogs have not been around for that long.

Domestic dogs no......perhaps im going back a tad too far !! lol

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Thanks Boa, my thoughts exactly. Australia is one of the few countries in the world that has a total blanket ban on all importations for the pet trade. Pick up a book at some stage and read. I can recomend a book called the Lizard King. It revolves around one of the Biggest reptile smuggle syndicates in the world and how they operated. Maybe this will be an eye opener for some.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

You might be Moreliaman. Its funny how some people can not understand basic principles of biology. It applies to all animals. Not just Morelia. Or they know what they know just because they read stuff on the internet. How sad. And Moreliaman i am not referring to you.

 

[DanTheMan]

Where on Earth do you guys get your information ? In America and that other big place the Rest of the World they keep reptiles from every corner of the world, it's probably safe to say that 90% of their animals are pure. Now I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade and introduce facts into a great emotional debate but please do just a little bit of research rather than relying on some inaccurate statements on the Internet.

Its not really info, hardly a fact. Its a hyperbole, I base my judgment on what I have seen on American websites etc.

 

[Moreliaman]

Its not really info, hardly a fact. Its a hyperbole, I base my judgment on what I have seen on American websites etc.

Ahhhh well if youve read it on an american website then it must be true eh !!
Wouldnt it be better to get the info from an american instead of assuming,

 

[TrueBlue]

This seems to be the right thread to set the record straight.!!

To all those people that have been telling porkies and speading slander, (yes you know who you are), you may want to get your facts straight before you carry on like school children and get yourselves into big trouble,-
I " DONOT " own, nor have I EVER owned or ever had in my collection " jags ". Simple as that.

This hobby is a joke sometimes with all the lying backstabbing petty little wanabes around. It really is a messy hobby with jealously running rife.

I hope thats not to harsh moderators, and wont be deleted, as im only correcting what needs to be corrected.

 

[DanTheMan]

Ahhhh well if youve read it on an american website then it must be true eh !!

Yeap, thats right!

Wouldnt it be better to get the info from an american instead of assuming,

Na, I'm right, and never wrong

 

[bwana]

Gidday All,

"The genetic chaos that exists behind this rainbow of pretty patterns can never be rectified.
The lack of foresight demonstrated such irresponsible breeding is catastrophic and profound.
In the quest for a new saleable novelties, patterns and colours, breeders of such specimens
fail to realize that the damage created by this practice is permanent.
What evolution has inexorably created over the millenia, cell by cell, molecule by molecule,
is destroyed forever by the passing whim of a would-be scientist, herpetological dilettante or commercial breeder, for once the genes are commingled, they are lost forever."
(Richard Ross (The reproductive husbandry of pythons and boa's)

They are jags, no doubt about it.
I find it hard to believe that Qld Morelia's and his mates are "old school"
No old school herp would even think of such a thing.
Only the inexperienced amateur's and the money hungry would.
Cheers
Brian

 

[=bECS=]

Gidday All,

"The genetic chaos that exists behind this rainbow of pretty patterns can never be rectified.
The lack of foresight demonstrated such irresponsible breeding is catastrophic and profound.
In the quest for a new saleable novelties, patterns and colours, breeders of such specimens
fail to realize that the damage created by this practice is permanent.
What evolution has inexorably created over the millenia, cell by cell, molecule by molecule,
is destroyed forever by the passing whim of a would-be scientist, herpetological dilettante or commercial breeder, for once the genes are commingled, they are lost forever."
(Richard Ross (The reproductive husbandry of pythons and boa's)

They are jags, no doubt about it.
I find it hard to believe that Qld Morelia's and his mates are "old school"
No old school herp would even think of such a thing.
Only the inexperienced amateur's and the money hungry would.
Cheers
Brian

well said!

 

[Retic]

Well that is something we most definitely agree on.

This hobby is a joke sometimes with all the lying backstabbing petty little wanabes around. It really is a messy hobby with jealously running rife.

 

[arbok]

But if we were america we would just take over the country with the pure animals and keep them for ourselves but the only reason we don't have the reptiles america has is because our land is perfect for reptiles and they would take over the country

mate, you make no sense...