Striped Diamond holdbacks

[zulu]

re Striped

Who has any experience with wild diamonds from different localities,not many,bob whithey,serpentongue ,pugsly one day ide like to see a wild one just to find out if they have stripes,ime sick of boa teasing me all the time,its ruining my time in the house and makes me feel uncomfortable and he chews his finger nails at the computer making me nervous too

 

[Jungleland]

As far as striped carpets not being so comon years ago i ave to disagree especially with Proserpines,in general most wild Proserpines

Hi Andrew,

Sorry mate I should have said in private collection.

Joel

 

[BROWNS]

Yep Joel,too true,if only some of the ones i've seen around had been collected way back we'd have some stunning carpets around now like the stunners of yours,they're as good or better than many jags that's for sure,remember we usually only see the best specimens with jags.A friend just showed me a pic of a 5 footer hanging off her fridge with nice orange/yellow and full dorsal stripe andi've seen one like your avatar once that not many believe me about.There is big variety in the wild with these guys and you get some real fuglys too but in general the majorityi see are striped to some degree like this one i posted on another forum..

I've seen some cracker perfectly banded wild ones too with great colour and the reduced patterned ones which are sort of striped are pretty common too,unfortunately this one was a fresh roadkill!

 

[MatE]

Just talking about striped wild animals i havent seen any diamond striped animals,but when i was a young fella i came across a perfectly striped coastal that would rival and today,from the coffs harbour region.But had to release it as i didnt even have a reptile licence then oh well.

 

[pugsly]

This is a good thread, and I hope no one is taking anything personally.

Matt - I was referring to the Stolen GTPs.

Waz - You dont need to understand it. Somethings I can't understand either, like Labor getting into government, but hey, it happens...

Back to the topic. Especially striped animals. Steve6638030593 posted a few animals from Coffs recently on here, which look IDENTICAL to ALL the so called diamonds in this thread. I would love for him to put some pics up for me. As for stripes, they have been around. Go to Coffs and every second snake has a full stripe down its back.. Not uncommon. My point is, take one of the Diamond looking Coffs carpets, put it over a normal, and hey presto...

In my opinion, there is (someway back in the line) intergrade presense in these snakes. Thats just me, am I right? Who knows, clearly by this thread no one actually has a clue on what they are, how to define a Diamond, or an intergrade, so there in lies the problem.

I would love to see some CLEARLY defined descriptions of each of the carpets at issue here. Yes there will always be mutations and morphs etc etc, as we see in the Coastals, but with the Diamonds, again, show me evidence of 1 striped Diamond in the Wild.. not going to happen. (Buddha has seen one with partial striping which was found recently apparently, but the location of which and any photo or other evidence is still missing..)

At the end of the day, I raise these things because I dont want to see idiots passing off hybrids and intergrades as Diamonds. Simple as that, because its already happening, and will only get worse, and there is no way in hell I will be purchasing any 'Diamond' which completely resembles an intergrade...

 

[Retic]

Pugs, I certainly haven't taken anything you have said personally. We get on very well and I know why you have taken your stance on this.

This is a good thread, and I hope no one is taking anything personally.

...

 

[slacker]

I'm starting to get a bit confused here.

According to some posts I've read (I think it was earlier in this thread) there's no difference between animals in the Morelia spilota complex beyond that of colouration and patterning i.e. no scale count differences etc.

That suggests to me that they're all really just a different "phase" of the same thing, much like a striped carpet compared to a banded, in which case, does it really make a difference WHAT the parents were, so long as the seller isn't falsely labelling them? Hell, if that's the case, how CAN the seller even be "falsely labelling them?" :?

On the other side of the coin, if they really ARE just different phases, then what's the go with Diamond Python Syndrome? Why don't coastals get it? Surely there has to be more genetic differences between spilota spilota and spilota mcdowelli, than that which affects colouring and patterning, if DPS only exists in spilota spilota. Unless, of course, DPS does not actually exist and all claimed occurrences of it were simply poor genes, some kind of disease, or even poor husbandry....

Hopefully that won't start a flame war, I'm not intending to stir the pot... just getting a little confused now.

 

[steve6610]

pugs, heh, thats ponybug on here, steve6610 on other websites, :lol:

i think these diamonds are stunning, and dan, if you read this, i hope we can do a deal with some nice coastals......

but just because u asked nicely pugs, a couple of my pure coffs harbour coastals...........

 

[Retic]

I love that top one Steve. I have to get myself some of those.

 

[steve6610]

it is stunning, a friend bred them, you should see his hold backs, wow, they are even better, and full striped with reduced head patterns,
hoping to breed them next season...........

 

[pugsly]

Thanks Steve.

So... Can anyone else see the familiarality there!!?!??!?!

You put that pure Coastal carpet, next to these so called pure Diamonds, and tell me that the 'Diamonds' in question are pure. Please...

 

[pugsly]

Glimmerman also has an intergrade which is probably the best I have ever seen, maybe he will put that up too. Then again, tell me that these snakes dont have intergrade in them..

 

[steve6610]

i'm not getting into the debate about what they are, all i know is i want a pair, haha,

the funny thing is pugs, the breeder of this pair of pure coastals was hounded on this very forum when he tried to sell then, all the experts back then said they were hybrids / crosses, to the point where he doesn't post the parents pics much anymore,
so funny how things change, your now using those same hatchys now 2 years later to prove that somebody elses diamonds are intergrades,

i hope you can see the funny side of that, ...............

i still think the diamonds ash posted are pure diamonds, but just a morph, i'd love to see what they throw when paired together........... but i'm not a diamond expert.......... i prefer port macs.........

 

[reptilegirl_jordan]

there beautiful! well done

 

[peterjohnson64]

I'm starting to get a bit confused here.

According to some posts I've read (I think it was earlier in this thread) there's no difference between animals in the Morelia spilota complex beyond that of colouration and patterning i.e. no scale count differences etc.

That suggests to me that they're all really just a different "phase" of the same thing, much like a striped carpet compared to a banded, in which case, does it really make a difference WHAT the parents were, so long as the seller isn't falsely labelling them? Hell, if that's the case, how CAN the seller even be "falsely labelling them?" :?

On the other side of the coin, if they really ARE just different phases, then what's the go with Diamond Python Syndrome? Why don't coastals get it? Surely there has to be more genetic differences between spilota spilota and spilota mcdowelli, than that which affects colouring and patterning, if DPS only exists in spilota spilota. Unless, of course, DPS does not actually exist and all claimed occurrences of it were simply poor genes, some kind of disease, or even poor husbandry....

Hopefully that won't start a flame war, I'm not intending to stir the pot... just getting a little confused now.

Hi Aspidites, that'd be me. and I was more asking a question than making a comment. I still want someone to tell me the difference between Diamonds, Coastals etc. Clearly by your comment re them being just a different phase then you are agreeing with me about merging the subspecies back into one. However, I must admit that the scientists that originally agreed to splitting them would have a bit more knowledge about these things than me. Maybe someone can enlighten us as to why they were split. (Even though Diamonds always were). Oh, and this happened after I took an interest in Herps and blew me away years later when I came back in.

And as for DPS - well again thats no different to humans. Some humans are more susceptible to different diseases than others but they haven sub species'd us yet. Negros probably handle the sun better than Pommies. And then - what is DPS anyway????

BUT.... If we are to continue to subclassify spilota then we need to know what a Diamond Python is. After we know what a Diamond Python is then we can decide what Boa's animals are. But surely that must at least start with a definition or taxonomical description of M spilota spilota??

 

[MatE]

Ive seen something very similar to the bottom two pictures getting around coffs harbour but without the reduced head pattern.So why cant they be just a morph of a pure locale carpet?Ive also seen the carpets they get from down south(wild caught port maqaurie)and there much darker in colour.My mate is with wires so i get to see alot of different locale carpets.

pugs, heh, thats ponybug on here, steve6610 on other websites, :lol:

i think these diamonds are stunning, and dan, if you read this, i hope we can do a deal with some nice coastals......

but just because u asked nicely pugs, a couple of my pure coffs harbour coastals...........

 

[flavirufus]

Matt - I was referring to the Stolen GTPs.

I haven't heard anything about stolen GTPs being recovered onfortunately. Do you mean the most recent animals in Queensland, the ones from over a year ago in Adelaide, or others?? You've kinda lost me. Apologies if the question wasn't directed at me in the first place.

So... Can anyone else see the familiarality there!!?!??!?!

You put that pure Coastal carpet, next to these so called pure Diamonds, and tell me that the 'Diamonds' in question are pure. Please...

When I saw the pics I thought "Oh god, please don't tell me someone's trying to pass them off as diamonds!" Having read the post, noone is trying to call them diamonds thankfully. I realise that the differences are subtle, but I now understand why you're struggling with this concept, Steve.

Matt

 

[steve6610]

When I saw the pics I thought "Oh god, please don't tell me someone's trying to pass them off as diamonds!" Having read the post, noone is trying to call them diamonds thankfully. I realise that the differences are subtle, but I now understand why you're struggling with this concept, Steve.

Matt

hi matt, they are my coastals, and nope, they aren't diamonds, :lol::lol: but they have been called hybrids, :shock: but they are 100% coffs harbour coastals,

i'd love to buy the parents, but my mates still holding out on me...........

 

[cockney red]

Great thread.. Amazes me Pugsley, that people cannot understand that their are no" Diamonds" out there in the wild with dirty great horseshoe markings on the back of their heads.

 

[Retic]

Nick, the offspring varied from 'standard' through to 2/3rds striped and various in betweens. Incubator temperature was 30.5 constant.

Were all the offspring unusuall or were there some in the clutch that resembled the parents? If there were some normnal appearing animnals in the clutch then it could be a recessive mutation.

If there are unusual animals as well as normals in the clutch then it suggests a recessive trait. All the unusuall ones both striped and not striped could be the homozygous version of this mutation.

If all the offspring are unusuall then it suggests that the trait will not be genetic. The only exlainations for an entire clutch being so unusuall would developmental problems during incubation, temerature issues during incubation , and of course that they really are hybrids and those are not their parents.

Nick