NSW DECCW Code of Practice...

[Pythoninfinite]

Chris, I would suggest that, according to the Code, you would be in breach of the literal requirements, and could be forced to change the way your lizards live, regardless of the successful way it works for you and your animals. It would be easy for an officer to insist that you weren't providing a safe and secure environment for your pets. But if you're nice to them, and give them a cup of tea and a piece of cake when they visit, you'll probably get away with it. If you send them away and insist that they make an appointment to invade your privacy (if they turn up unannounced), as every keeper should do, you'll probably get the book thrown at you. That's the way it works in WA, and it's only a small step to that stage in other parts of Australia.

 

[dpeica]

.

 

[Peterwookie]

We should all just ignore them...they're a little bit of a joke.

A little bit Pfffft ......... Now there is a new government what happens now ???

 

[Pythoninfinite]

A little bit Pfffft ......... Now there is a new government what happens now ???

This is what we've been waiting for. Hopefully a whole new world will open up before us. (Difficult for me to say this... I'm a leftie!!!)

WE have to wait until the new Ministry is sworn in, which may be as early as next week. If Catherine Cusack is confirmed in the position as Minister for the Environment, I believe that some wheels will begin turning fairly soon.

Just the money spent on this 'project' alone should be of interest to her, especially if the Department cannot provide evidence of need, and the flow-on costs to the reptile-gear industry, especially those who make & sell enclosures and rack & tub systems, would be enormous.

All because 3 or 4 individuals in positions of power decide to go on a little personal crusade.

 

[zulu]

The NSW election was a massacre brought about by entrenched beaurocracy and complacency in the various government departments.
Ile be letting good old Bart Bassett know what i want,it defenitetly cost the government votes here.

 

[Waterrat]

Public service is a contradiction in terms. They do everything to serve their egos (in this case of the Code certainly) and nothing to serve the public, i.e. us. They don't even listen to what we want, hence the fiasco with the advisory committee meetings or for the better word, the lack of it.

Jamie, can you PM me (and to anyone else interested) the names of those 3 or 4 individuals pursuing their personal crusade? They need to be identified and their names served to the new Minister. These worms must be removed otherwise nothing will change in the long run. I believe that pointing out the individuals (and getting rid of them) will be more effective that pointing at the whole Department.

 

[Octane]

Sorry if this is slightly heavy reading.

If reptile keepers objection to the proposed regulations is going to be bought before the new minister any submission should make reference to the Subordinate Legislation Act 1989 No 146.

Basically this is a NSW Law that must be followed when implementing statutory regulations and what a minister has to consider prior to ministerial approval.

Most noteworthy is:-
Part 2
Section 4 [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Guidelines[/FONT]

(1) Before a statutory rule is made, the responsible Minister is required to ensure that, as far as is reasonably practicable, the guidelines set out in Schedule 1 are complied with.​

and

Schedule 1

3. In determining whether and how the objectives should be achieved, the responsible Minister is to have regard to the following principles:

(a) Administrative decisions should be based on adequate information and consultation concerning the need for and consequences of the proposed action.​

(b) Implementation by means of a statutory rule should not normally be undertaken unless the anticipated benefits to the community from the proposed statutory rule outweigh the anticipated costs to the community, bearing in mind the impact of the proposal on the economy and on consumers, members of the public, relevant interest groups, and any sector of industry and commerce, that may be affected.​

(c) The alternative option that involves the greatest net benefit or the least net cost to the community should normally be chosen from the range of alternative options available to achieve the objectives.​

This is just a section of the legislation but the DECCW push for the proposed regulation is clearly not in the spirit of part B. The only real outcome to come from this regulation is cost to the community.

If you want to read further about this ACT

NSW Legislation

Sorry again if this is heavy reading but I believe it is relevant.

Thanks for reading.
Octane

 

[jack]

thankyou octane, i'll add that to my letter.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Thank you so much for that Octane. Limited time atm, but will check it out tomorrow. I'll be responding to Mick O'Flynn at DECCW tomorrow, letting him know that further avoidance of direct discussion with their own appointed advisory group is not a tenable option for the Department any longer. It never was, but they've spun this out absolutely as long as they can. We have no patience for this stalling any longer. If they have nothing to hide, they must meet with us at the earliest opportunity.

Thank you again!

Jamie

 

[Jake_the_snake]

I have a Spotted Python in an enclosure thats 80x40x40 with 80 being its length

And my Jungle in enclosure 60x60x120 with 120 being the height.

By my calculation this should be ok

 

[Khagan]

Thought i'd bring this question up in here rather than a new thread seen as it's somewhat relevant to the code of practice.

Been looking at converting a tv unit into an enclosure, but having trouble find any with atleast 600 depth. If the snake falls under the category that has to be kept in 1200x600x600, would something that is only in the 500's depth but more height/width be ok under this code of practice?

 

[saximus]

The code, if it goes through, doesn't have specific dimension rules like that. It concentrated on overall floor or wall area. So in your case, if it's smaller in one dimension but you make up for it in another you're fine

 

[Khagan]

The code, if it goes through, doesn't have specific dimension rules like that. It concentrated on overall floor or wall area. So in your case, if it's smaller in one dimension but you make up for it in another you're fine

Yeah i kinda thought that was the case, just wanted to clarify before i went ahead then only have to replace it if i was wrong. Thanks.

 

[mayamaya]

Lol weird, the government take reptile keeping way too seriously. And very likely just for extra money from people.... Reptiles are normal pets just like cats, dogs, fish, horses, etc. Just not as popular since everyone has different interests in pets. This licensing, fee stuff is bull*****. They want us to pay them to keep our own pets and making everything more & more complicated even if the animal is clearly in a good environment, happy, healthy. Far out it costs enough just for the pet alone
Yes, you need to make sure you have all the correct equipment for your reptile but come on.. they are taking it way too far. Its not like people are keeping them cruely. People put a lot of time, money and effort in to make sure their pet has the best life possible. I think people should just make sure they can look after their reptile responsibly, and be over 18 when they purchase etc. and have proof of the right equipment... then leave it at that. And if someone sees or knows of a reptile (or just like any pet at all anyway) being mistreated or in poor condition/environment, then report it and THAT should be when the law comes in. Making people pay to keep them constantly and bothering them about changing things and unneccessarily buying different things, charging all these fees etc, is just ridiculous! The only reason people REALLY need licenses is for emergency/vet purposes. Otherwise its just pointless..... They're normal pets! And people who cant provide all their things dont even bother getting them! (well I havent seen it anyway) Ughh.. >_>

 

[S&M Morelia]

The code, if it goes through, doesn't have specific dimension rules like that. It concentrated on overall floor or wall area. So in your case, if it's smaller in one dimension but you make up for it in another you're fine

According to the "standard" it says that the smallest dimension of the enclosure cannot be smaller than 20% of the total length of the occupant (this is for snakes) so if you had a 2.5m coastal, the smallest side you can have is 500mm.

The way that DECCW have gone about this is very very sneaky...
There are a number of things in the code that was posted that I do not agree with.
But I will re-read the latest one posted by pythoninfinate again tonight and post my comments up when I get a chance.

 

[Waterrat]

According to the "standard" it says that the smallest dimension of the enclosure cannot be smaller than 20% of the total length of the occupant (this is for snakes) so if you had a 2.5m coastal, the smallest side you can have is 500mm.

If this is true, it borders on animal cruelty. Would anyone keep a 2.5m python in a 50x50x50cm cage?

 

[saximus]

No I don't think that would be allowed Michael. I'd missed the 20% bit but there is also a minimum floor/wall area requirement as well. So if one side was 50cm you'd have to make another dimension bigger to still get the overall area required as well. I know it's been said but it just seems like all just a bunch of office workers pulling numbers out of their rectums with no regard for what people like Jamie have been telling them

 

[S&M Morelia]

If this is true, it borders on animal cruelty. Would anyone keep a 2.5m python in a 50x50x50cm cage?

Sorry Waterrat, I was only referring to just the smallest side, you will still need to meet the "standard" floor/wall area for that sized python.

 

[Chris1]

Lol weird, the government take reptile keeping way too seriously. And very likely just for extra money from people.... Reptiles are normal pets just like cats, dogs, fish, horses, etc. Just not as popular since everyone has different interests in pets. This licensing, fee stuff is bull*****. They want us to pay them to keep our own pets and making everything more & more complicated even if the animal is clearly in a good environment, happy, healthy. Far out it costs enough just for the pet alone
Yes, you need to make sure you have all the correct equipment for your reptile but come on.. they are taking it way too far. Its not like people are keeping them cruely. People put a lot of time, money and effort in to make sure their pet has the best life possible. I think people should just make sure they can look after their reptile responsibly, and be over 18 when they purchase etc. and have proof of the right equipment... then leave it at that. And if someone sees or knows of a reptile (or just like any pet at all anyway) being mistreated or in poor condition/environment, then report it and THAT should be when the law comes in. Making people pay to keep them constantly and bothering them about changing things and unneccessarily buying different things, charging all these fees etc, is just ridiculous! The only reason people REALLY need licenses is for emergency/vet purposes. Otherwise its just pointless..... They're normal pets! And people who cant provide all their things dont even bother getting them! (well I havent seen it anyway) Ughh.. >_>

really?

you think people having large collections of large snakes in tubs/racks they can barely move in isnt cruel?
...theres a bucket load of people who do that,...

spend a week in a toilet cubicle and tell me u still think thats ok,.....

a vet has never asked me for my license,.....its their job to help the animals, not to monitor who is and isnt licenced,...

 

[killimike]

really?

you think people having large collections of large snakes in tubs/racks they can barely move in isnt cruel?
...theres a bucket load of people who do that,...

spend a week in a toilet cubicle and tell me u still think thats ok,.....

a vet has never asked me for my license,.....its their job to help the animals, not to monitor who is and isnt licenced,...

I know it's all been said before, but I kinda disagree. There already exists animal cruelty legislation, why not use that when the case arises, and not spend so much money on a system like this that makes everyone pay, tax payer and law abiding reptile keeper as well? Do you have legal minimum size requirements for the enclosure of your cat/dog/fish/hermit crab?

The old 'would you like to spend the time in a tiny space?' is rather anthropomorphic. Would you like to eat only once a week? No? Then feed your snake more, don't be cruel!

The use that is being made of the licensing system to control keepers is another story. As is the vet nurse who told me her practice reported a person who brought in a corn snake.