Help join the protest against the new OEH laws for reptile keeping in NSW

[bigguy]

The actual fact is DOE lied their guts out to get these new laws in. The Herp Societies committee were told it was only going to be a guideline, then after talks ceased they increased the sizes and made it Mandatory Then they lied to the Minister by telling her these new laws had the full backing of the societies, so they were passed.

These laws may not effect you at the present time, but here is some food for thought. In a few years every cage size could be increased again, effecting everyone. At the present the laws may put most breeders out of business. This may make some people happy, but if no breeders there will be very few hatchlings available. Prices will skyrocket. Only the very wealthy will be able to afford them. The hobby could crash.

We need to nip this in the bud. Everyone should send a letter to the Minister of Environment. She is unaware there is a problem but a few thousand letters should indicate to her there is a serious problem with the new laws. Failing this, the media should be contacted.

 

[champagne]

The actual fact is DOE lied their guts out to get these new laws in. The Herp Societies committee were told it was only going to be a guideline, then after talks ceased they increased the sizes and made it Mandatory Then they lied to the Minister by telling her these new laws had the full backing of the societies, so they were passed.

These laws may not effect you at the present time, but here is some food for thought. In a few years every cage size could be increased again, effecting everyone. At the present the laws may put most breeders out of business. This may make some people happy, but if no breeders there will be very few hatchlings available. Prices will skyrocket. Only the very wealthy will be able to afford them. The hobby could crash.

We need to nip this in the bud. Everyone should send a letter to the Minister of Environment. She is unaware there is a problem but a few thousand letters should indicate to her there is a serious problem with the new laws. Failing this, the media should be contacted.

prices skyrocket and hobby could crash, really common..... there are plenty of reptile breeders outside NSW that these laws don't affect.

 

[bigguy]

Quite true, but how long till the other states follow with new laws. I have heard the Vic govt is looking at this right now.

 

[lizardwhisperer]

Not bothered looking in detail at the new keeper's rules.

Really can't see what the problem is.

So long as the enclosures you keep your reptiles in have a larger footprints than the "mandated" sizes (and nearly everyone here will) then you don't have anything to worry about.

Making a mountain of out a mole hill perhaps.

 

[Skeptic]

Not bothered looking at the new rules.

Really can't see that the problem is, so long as the enclosures you keep your reptiles in have a larger footprint than the "mandated" sizes (and nearly everyone here will) then you don't have anything to worry about.

Making a moutain of out a mole hill perhaps.

You might have a better chance of seeing what the problem is if you actually read the new CoP.

 

[Cougar2007]

Not bothered looking at the new keeper's rules.

Really can't see what the problem is.

So long as the enclosures you keep your reptiles in have a larger footprints than the "mandated" sizes (and nearly everyone here will) then you don't have anything to worry about.

Making a mountain of out a mole hill perhaps.

Isn't that a bit contradictory lizard whisperer? You haven't bothered to look at the new rules but you can't see what the problem is? Obviously you don't keep monitors???

I'd suggest you read them before making "mountain out of molehill" comments

 

[lizardwhisperer]

What I meant to say is "in detail" , see adjusted post, too busy watching 4Corners and not really focusing on my typing. My bad..

 

[Rogue5861]

You might have a better chance of seeing what the problem is if you actually read the new CoP.

Agreed. Even though this doesnt affect me in SA some of the sizes seem a little dramatic.

Maybe these restictions should be implemented on people with basic licences and all current specialist permit holders should be exempt. (SA licences are basic then advanced, i assume nsw use a similar system).

Is there anyway to apply for exemptions at all?


Rick

 

[lizardwhisperer]

The rules are virtually unenforceable since the NSW govt is not interested in growing the government workforce and the inspectors in the enforcing department are VERY THINLY SPREAD and mostly just fly desks.

 

[Cougar2007]

They just hired 15 more inspectors I heard. Isn't that growing the workforce?

 

[=bECS=]

There's no point in me building a bigger enclosure for my monitors, given the sizes it would almost be cheaper to add another room to the house for my adult Spencers, hence why I'm selling one.
Not to mention that once they are in an aviary or pit outside (which was the plan) its going to take up considerable room. Then I still need the addition of a room on the house to keep them in over our cold winters because they will freeze outside resulting in respiratory problems or death during winter. It's ridiculous -_- maybe I should just let them be free-range inside!
Why did they hit monitor keepers so hard??

 

[Bart70]

The rules are virtually unenforceable since the NSW govt is not interested in growing the government workforce and the inspectors in the enforcing department are VERY THINLY SPREAD and mostly just fly desks.

Only takes one officer and one inspection....

I recall a person who was on the advisory committee commenting that the power hungry individuals that were pushing these through were extremely keen for mandatory regs so that they could start prosecuting and I believe there was some feeling of intent to get out there and start enforcing/fining. Happy to stand corrected if this was incorrect but the source was one that I believe was in a position to know and can be trusted.

Resources might be light on the ground....but I am sure a small number of them *could* cause a lot of upset if they were directed to......The current Government is not keen on growing workforces, but ALL Governments take a strong interest in increasing revenue streams.

 

[=bECS=]

Wonder how many keepers this will force underground?
Those that have larger collections in racks and tubs etc who get fed up and don't feel the need to pay increasing license fees anymore, followed by possible fines/seizure due to the COP.
If you don't have a reptile license then don't they require a warrant to enter the premises?

I have a feeling this is just going to eventually increase the black market of reptile keeping if they start enforcing it hard.
Having reptiles in shops now is going to gain more attention to them.
How many kids are going to catch a diamond/bluey/beardie/jacky in the bush and decide to keep it because they seen how much they are in shops, or try selling them on.

There's so many people keeping reptiles both native and exotic off license and those of us who are doing it honestly are the ones getting punished

 

[Bart70]

If you don't have a reptile license then don't they require a warrant to enter the premises?

They cannot enter your premises currently unless they have arranged a suitable time and you agree to let them in. Whilst I am not 100% sure, even if they arrived at your place at an arranged time and you refused to let them in they cannot force entry and would still need to obtain a warrant.

Wouldn't end well though once they came back with it as I would imagine they would have little trouble obtaining one under those circumstances...

(I agree with your thoughts though....If people go underground and are not licensed at least it makes it just that little bit harder for them to know where you are...)

 

[dragonlover1]

I mainly keep beardies and while my enclosures meet current regs(centrals in 1200x600x700 & pygmies in divided 1200x600x600),whats to stop the boofocrats coming back in a couple of years and doubling minimum sizes?
Desk jockeys make rules for other people without any understanding of the implications.
For instance Workcover recently changed the rules re licences;I have a ticket for front end loader/backhoe but for some reason this hard earned ticket is no longer regarded as important,but my fork-lift ticket means I am qualified for "high risk".....so I can dig holes through gas pipes and electrical cables with no qualifications at all!
go figure

 

[=bECS=]

Wouldn't end well though once they came back with it as I would imagine they would have little trouble obtaining one under those circumstances...

Indeed :lol:
They would be even more unimpressed if they came back and found nothing because the person threw everything in bags over their neighbors fence lol

 

[Tesla]

If we are going to do it we need to do it properly, we need to utilize every form of communication available.
I suggest we:
-Call her office and make sure they know what it's in regards to
-Email her office and outline our concerns.
-Snail mail with our concerns.
-Even if we used fax as a tool.

I think if we were to utilize these 4 methods there would be no way she could ignore our concerns and would be forced to at least address them. My partner and myself will be doing so but we need as many keepers as possible to help, even if out of state keepers were to at least flick them an email it would be a massive help.

Robyn Parker's details are as follow:

cellspacing="2" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(243, 242, 230)"
|-
| align="right" style="width: 105px" | Telephone:
| style="width: 95%" | (02) 9228 5253
|-
| align="right" width="105" | Fax:
| width="95%" | (02) 9228 5763
|-
| align="right" width="105" | Email:
| width="95%" | [email protected]
|-
| align="right" valign="top" width="105" | Street Address:
| valign="top" width="95%" | Governor Macquarie Tower
Level 32, 1 Farrer Place
SYDNEY NSW 2000
|-

 

[lizardwhisperer]

They cannot enter your premises currently unless they have arranged a suitable time and you agree to let them in. Whilst I am not 100% sure, even if they arrived at your place at an arranged time and you refused to let them in they cannot force entry and would still need to obtain a warrant.

Wouldn't end well though once they came back with it as I would imagine they would have little trouble obtaining one under those circumstances...

(I agree with your thoughts though....If people go underground and are not licensed at least it makes it just that little bit harder for them to know where you are...)

There's your solution, send them packing, no warant from a court to force you to let them inside to view your arrangements, no inspection.

And keep the curtains drawn or and blinds closed and keep nothing in sight of anyone who "happens" to look over a fence, or walks down your driveway.

Like I said, the new "guidelines" are unenforceable.

 

[lizardwhisperer]

If we are going to do it we need to do it properly, we need to utilize every form of communication available.
I suggest we:
-Call her office and make sure they know what it's in regards to
-Email her office and outline our concerns.
-Snail mail with our concerns.
-Even if we used fax as a tool.

I think if we were to utilize these 4 methods there would be no way she could ignore our concerns and would be forced to at least address them. My partner and myself will be doing so but we need as many keepers as possible to help, even if out of state keepers were to at least flick them an email it would be a massive help.

Robyn Parker's details are as follow:

class="wysiwyg_dashes"
|- class="wysiwyg_dashes_tr"
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" align="right" | Telephone:
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" | (02) 9228 5253
|- class="wysiwyg_dashes_tr"
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" align="right" | Fax:
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" | (02) 9228 5763
|- class="wysiwyg_dashes_tr"
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" align="right" | Email:
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="95%" | [email protected]
|- class="wysiwyg_dashes_tr"
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="105" align="right" | Street Address:
| class="wysiwyg_dashes_td" width="95%" | Governor Macquarie Tower
Level 32, 1 Farrer Place
SYDNEY NSW 2000
|-

Just like the marine no fishing zones and very restrictive bag limits, once the rules are on the books, it's impossible to get them rescined or removed from the law books.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I think you have next to no chance of having these new rules changed or removed now they are on the books, especially if they are a going to be a new revenue stream.

There just are not in all reality enough people involved in the hobby to force a change after the event, especially if the people responsible are already on their little power trip and now building their little empires.

 

[=bECS=]

There's your solution, send them packing, no warant from a court to force you to let them inside to view your arrangements, no inspection.

And keep the curtains drawn or and blinds closed and keep nothing in sight of anyone who "happens" to look over a fence, or walks down your driveway.

Like I said, the new "guidelines" are unenforceable.

Unless its in your license conditions to allow them entry, if it's not already (I haven't looked)
After a few 'no warrant, no entry' house calls it will be added!
Like I said, those of us who are doing the right thing being licensed and telling them exactly what and where we keep via record books are getting punished.

If it's all about revenue raising, how long until we will be required to have ABN's and pay tax on sales..... Although if we were, I'm sure 98% of keepers and breeders would be registering a loss and having a nice big tax return after claiming electricity, food supplies, enclosure materials and upgrades, internet for research/record keeping and such