Some Morelia's

[lasnakess]

I'm even more confused guys:cry::cry::cry:

Ok, someone has already explained the jag, thanx...but wot was that other one, i forget wot it was called after reading 18 pages, starting with l that has always died?

I know it is illegal to KNOWINGLY breed hybrids, but the mutation part throws me because from wot i remember from biology class, a mutation will occure regardless, an extra A here, double dna strand there. And within humans it seems that pure breeding (in-breeding) results with more frequent mutations. Haemophilias? I know some mutations are genetically passed on but others can happen "out of the blue" downs syndrome, albino children.

I have a 'hypo' coastal python...didn't know that's wot it is called when I got her, nor do i know if she will continue to look hypo when she is old enough to breed.

So my question is, can i or can I not breed her, knowing that she has a genetic code that portrays reduced black?

there is also a debat about locales being hybrids. I dont know what locale my coastal is. I can't asume that she is brisi locale because that's where i live and where the person who breed her comes from (i think). And obviously my diamond python comes from a line that was brought here from NSW, but are diamonds locale specific too? The only way to know for sure that your animal is local specific is to steal it from the wild, which is illegal, and for all you know someone lost a snake that comes from the other side of Australia and has now bred with the wild locales.

sorry for the long speal, I'm just having trouble getting my head around all this, since there are so many ppl with different opinions. Unless everyone can agree wot is acceptable and wot is not, how can hybrid and mutation breeding be stoped?

Oh btw: the pics are ok lookin, nothin better than the already varried colours and patterns that already exist naturally (purely?)

 

[Hemiaspis]

Hey Guys, Thought I'd offer my 2 cents worth. These "designer" pythons (as people are calling them) are the "skid-mark" on Australian Herpetology.
It seems we are destined to go down the same path as the American trade. There are so many examples as to why this is not a good thing. Just look at the Burmese/Ceylon Python situation. These two species were regularly hybridised twenty years ago (all done quite openly, I might add), and now these hybrids are so common and difficult to distinguish, that the true lines are almost non-existant.

Why don't we (as a reptile keeping community) set the standard, and make the focus of the hobby/industry about the animals, not dollars!!!!!

Don't justify breeding these "designer morphs" purely on the existance of others, that's absurd.

I've been involved in the keeping of Australian Reptiles for the last twenty five years, and something I've noticed is that many of the people just in it for the cash, come and go out of the hobby, but their "projects" scar the trade indefinately.

 

[krefft]

This is pretty much why i dont have a problem with hybrids, there are plenty of ppl around interested in pure wild type animals so all that needs to be created is a clear division between the 2. IMO the only way that can happen is by allowing hybrids above board so we can see who is who and what they breed.

Well said cris.

 

[hardcorey007]

Everyone keeps banging on how it is illegal. Yes it appears to be illegal to breed them in QLD. So there is nothing stopping them getting bred else where and getting imported to 'keep' in QLD. So if these specimens were bred interstate and are now being kept in QLD it appears that QLDMorelias (and his partners) have done nothing wrong by the rule. I did say if that was what occured. There are always way around the rules.

As for species codes, here in the NT you can put them down as just Morelia Spilota you don't have to list sub species. They just get listed as a carpet python. Obviously if species rather than subspecies are crossed then it's a different story.

Oh, and I'm just interpreting the rules as I see them. And for the record I haven't crossed anything.

 

[TrueBlue]

scorps,- Im not intentionally running him down just putting up a good dabate.
I think that ive been very well mannered, as much as possible anyway. The bit about the size of his balls was all i could constructively think of at the time, and as said ment no offence. I just cant understand why someone would post pics of hybrids claiming that they are now accepted and hide behind an avatar name.?
Maybe because they are jags with a false identity ?, and or scared of a visit from the EPA ?.


Bushfire, No breeders dont feel threatened at all, thats an absurd comment.
Everytime breeders sell animals they know most will be bred in a few years and therefore create more animals for sale. If they were greedy and worried about lost sales they would attempt to sterilise their animals before sale. There are many new people getting into reptiles every year, so the market increases every year.
So why would a few mongrels change anything.

 

[QldMorelias]

Hey Rob
First of all Im not here to argue with you

I never said they were accepted, what I said was they are becoming more widely accepted,

as I said before, this isnt about notoriety, this is about encouraging others to voice their opinion and share their programs. There has been alot of negative talk regarding hybrids on this site in the past, however it seems only to be coming from a number of influential people like yourself (im sure there are many others too). We're not trying to argue with you and the others, we simply want to encourage the people who are pro-hybrid and have been sitting quietly on the sidelines to voice their opinion on the topic without worrying about stepping on other peoples toes.

It seems to be working

 

[Aussie Python Lover]

Well I love hybrids or any other python for that matter great looking snakes qldmorelia

 

[-Matt-]

Like has been said previously...as more and more of these designer snakes move into the market the pure animals are going to get driven out and command more and more money ( just like how wild type corns are few and far between and fetch high dollars in the states). IMO this isnt a good thing as people will be buying the cheaper "better" looking animals and this hobby should revolve around the beautiful natural animals that this country of ours produces.
JMO

 

[Jason]

WOW... long thread.

Love the snakes, they are stunning..... but i have always loved jags, good to see they are out in the open a bit more. from what im hearing there are alot getting around at the moment. Same stories as these, they are hybrid, iv been line breeding etc etc and all of a sudden you have jags... miricles.

on a side not keep the pics coming, they are nice animals regardless of their true identities.

 

[Jason]

well theres the reason iv already got my darwins, befor you know it, you wont know whats pure and whats crap! shame when pure albino jungles start getting around now. who'd believe them with these pics floating around. from what i hear these jungle x albinos are going to be advertised for more then pure darwin hets????

 

[wackotecho]

Pure and Hybrid both have there place these days.

Breeders who have pure bred will be happy because their snakes will be worth more than those who breed hybrids. The breeders with hybrids will need new genes too.

Dogs are a good example - Pure bred with papers is worth a hell of a lot more than one without papers.

 

[carpetmuncher]

These look like Proserpines x jungles to me. That right? Or are they actual Jags.

i don't know what "hybrid" they are supposed to be, but, the head patterns, the yellow body colour developing, mmmmmmmm, i think it may be an introduction to some FOB's. i wonder why his 'mate' let him put up just those pics and none of the parents. call me sceptic, but if it looks like a duck...

well at least someone is trying to legitimise their hot stuff, my mate said.

 

[Ships]

Abomination!

 

[caustichumor]

There is no doubting that people crossing their sub-species will become a lot more prevelant in coming years, However since the laws in some states outright ban this hybridizing, some breeders will have to try to garner a large enough following to try and have the laws revised.
There will no doubt be a surge of unusual looking animals come onto the market in future years as new breeders try their hand at breeding their own hybrids, "expecting to get a similar looking result to the animals in this thread", when they do not end up looking anywhere near as interesting what will they be sold as?

 

[Kyro]

But thats the problem caustic they don't need to have the laws revised because It's quite easy to get around the laws atm, people can breed the hybrids in a "legal"state then move them. Until all states have the same regulations people will find ways around the red tape.

 

[TrueBlue]

qldmorelia, same here, im not arguing with you just pointing out some facts that youve got wrong, ie rp, melainistic, a-melainistic, platinum macs, striped, hypo etc etc that are all naturally occouring wild type animals not just captively produced. In fact as said, better examples can be found in the wild than from most,(if not all), captive breedings. Oh and a good debate, love a good debate its good for the soul.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why there is negative talk about hybrids??. It can and will damage the hobby to some extent, its that simple and you cannot deny that. Pure animals cant thou.!!

As for me being influential, i beg to differ and donot belive this to be true for one minute. I dont influence people at all, everyone can make up their own mind with out me. I have friends that have produced hybrids, i dont agree with it and have told them so, but it makes no difference to them what i think.

Im just a simple beach bum that likes to keep and breed replites.

 

[PhilK]

An escaped hybrid will do no more damage to the ecosystem than any other escapee that is released that wasn't from that location

Very true.. If you ignore that whole hybrid vigour thing.

This has been an awesome thread to read and I am more replying to subscribe to it and keep track of it than for any other reason (as I don't have much to add I guess)..
The only thing I can think of is that regardless of all hi professionalism and good intentions and honesty, QldMorelias doesn't seem to understand that what his 'mates' are doing is illegal.. You aren't allowed to breed hybrids - FACT.

It is tantamount to me posting a thread on here about how nice my hybrid marijuana bushes are coming along..

EDIT: I am also curious if they are being legitimately bred in Qld (as I assume QLDMorelias and his friends are doing) how they are being recorded on their papers, seeing as doing so is illegal here? Don't thin QLDMorelias has answered that..

 

[snakehunter]

well theres the reason iv already got my darwins, befor you know it, you wont know whats pure and whats crap! shame when pure albino jungles start getting around now. who'd believe them with these pics floating around. from what i hear these jungle x albinos are going to be advertised for more then pure darwin hets????

There is a het vic/darwin advertised on pales for scales. Real shame people feel the need to ruin a good albino darwin line

 

[TrueBlue]

In a few years time "all" the albino darwins will have a cloud of dought over them because of a few silly fools.
Thats one of the reasons ive never been interested in them in the first place, that and ive never seen a darwin that i like the look of anyway. Had albino darwins given to me to breed for someone and after a few months just lost interest in them. and got rid of them. Darwins are boring snakes no matter what they look like.

 

[smeejason]

my 2 cents(only new so converts to 1/4 cents) is that if the EPA decide to act they it will just make the lives everyone doing the right thing harder. The people doing the crossing will not get extra scutiny as they wil be not registered but all others will. And with extra policing comes extra costs so we will be the ones paying.
Just another americanism seeping into us that we have to have designer snakes. why not just have what come naturally and as Rob stated that is pretty varied.
Ask them if they will cross them with a BHP
then you will just get one very full BHP and all is fixed :lol::lol: