Some Morelia's

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

At least getting these babies into Australia would have been worth getting caught for!!! I will have to ask him about these when I see him next. Bring on the Jags!!!
Den
"As long as locales and even certain subs of Morelia are crossed for a selective purpose"
People seem to forget that you can put 2 stunning animals of two different subspecies together to breed for certain traits that are attractive in both parents. But of course only locality type animals can be line bred or selectively bred, wich is absolute rubbish. Any snake can be selectively bred for certain traits over a few generations!!!

 

[Wild~Touch]

Eventually our "ideals" will adjust accordingly. ie, we will get used to it

As far as honesty is concerned it seems nice to think it will happen, but I've been around too many horse,dog & cat breeders for too long and honesty has not reigned in any of them. Reptile people are no different
JMHO
Cheers
Sandee

 

[ad]

At least getting these babies into Australia would have been worth getting caught for!!! I will have to ask him about these when I see him next. Bring on the Jags!!!

Great to see some integrity in the hobby :lol:

and you do see it as a possiblity hence the reason you will ask him?
Yeah his 'huge fine' would be a deterrent for anyone, is that what you are ridiculing with the 'worth getting caught for"?

 

[The Devil]

I guess there will always be purists and others that just like pretty or different animals.
Looking at some of the ball pythons and jags on overseas sites, well, I'd kill for some of them.
Australia has been heading the same way for some time.

Who hasn't held back a great looking baby with plans to mate it with another to try and develop a stripe line of say jungles or coastals.

I can't understand why the identity of these people is so important, I've seen the snakes and I took the pics and yes in the flesh they look very interesting with great potential for future breeding.

I don't know where the snakes are at the moment and as they aren't of breeding size it doesn't really matter to me.

In a couple of years when the do breed I guess they will be advertised as different coastals, jungles or whatever.

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

To lose a reputation is a much bigger punishment than any court could hand out! Thus the getting out of the hobby. These animals are not his, I am sure of that. And Ad, I am sure you have got the most integrity of all!! Bet you, you kept reptiles before the licensing system was established. I am glad the Jags are here, and its only because they are so pretty that some breeders feel threatened by their presence. They know that it would take years to breed anything resembling some of the reduced patterned IJ jags floating around in overseas collections!!

 

[TrueBlue]

Cordylus,-
as said i may be wrong. He also may have had them at someone elses house when you visited.
He may also still keep reptiles under other peoples licences. Time will tell i spose.

Den,-
Not anymore ive done the move are are back on the sunny coast, eye candy everywhere.
I moved with a stack of clutches at all different stages of incubation and never lost an egg.
Blows the theroy that you need a back up system for the incubator if the power goes out for a few hours out of the water. It wasnt the couple of days out of the incubator that i was worried about it was the bump and pot hole riddled goat track they call the bruce hwy that i was more worried about. But they all survived the trip no worries.
When it comes to carpets i only see a small handfull that have evolved to be of different type animals, ie mds, diamonds, jungles, coastals, and cape yorks are about it, possibly proserpines and northern nsw carpets if you stretch it really far.. Brisbane and Buderim coastals are the same, and are also the same as most,(if not all), coastal populations from s/e qld to townsville. All forms of common old coastal carpets can be found up and down this huge area from hypos to stripes to what people call greys to all the hundreds of different colours and patterns that coastal come in. Their variation in colour and pattern seems endless even in the same area. Probally the most variable python in the world.

 

[PilbaraPythons]

Cordylus
I think you would loose that bet with ad, when I first meet ad many years ago as a fellow museum, he never kept a single reptile but was exposed to a wide array of reptiles in my collection and thus the seed was sewn. He has come a long way in a sort period of time though and gained more experience than me with several species.
Anyway back to the topic I guess.

Cheers Dave

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

Its just always so easy to bring up the integrity issue. The opposite of integrity is hypocrisy! Its like people pointing fingers at drink driving or scamming centrelink! But are themselves guilty of the crime. The reptile hobby is very restricting in Australia and people always want what they can't have. So they might end up in a position where they can suddenly get their hands on something they always wanted? Would you say no? If this is what a persons integrity is based on then society have really gotten itself a bunch of internet evangelists!
How many snakes do you think gets caught without licences in Queensland? What do you think is worse? Love the reduced pattern mungrel whatever crosses! Bring em on!

 

[hardcorey007]

My two bobs worth

My two bobs worth;
As we can all see hybrids are gaining popularity here in Australia. Like it or not it’s a fact. The thing I want to highlight is that the examples that we have seen are amazing specimens. But what you don’t see is the less attractive ones (couldn’t bring myself to say ugly) that were also produced. I want people not to get carried away in the hype and think, ‘if I cross my two different species I’ll get snakes that look like those cool ones’. It doesn’t quite work like that. You may get some nice ones, but the chances are against it, especially if you don’t have snakes with amazing traits to start off with.

So you breed your snakes like everyone else who has been inspired by threads like this one and you end up with a bunch of less attractive ‘crosses’ that you can’t sell. What then? Are you willing to hold on to them? Will you euthanize them? Or will you sell your soul and sell them off as pure breeds?
I just really want to highlight that there is more to this than just crossing two species and getting a guaranteed cool snake at the end of it. Please think long and hard and consider the ramifications of your decision before you commence cross breeding\hybridizing. The last thing we want is the market to be flood with crosses that nobody wants.

I’m not against hybrids and cross breeds, quite the opposite in fact. I like them and may even own one myself someday. That’s the cool thing about this great country of ours, we have the right to choose. Please think about it before you choose.

Corey.

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Ahhh, you are back Rob. Boat in toe I’m sure...
Yeah, when I mentioned Buderim my thoughts were at the few I've seen that are very similar to Coffs carpets in appearance. The bloke that lived on top of the car yard owned them.

Anyways, when bred responsibly I'm sure even better offspring would be produced. I look forward to seeing pics of the offspring in the future! There is the point Corey made about the 'offcuts' (for lack of a better word). I'd assume these would be euthanised. But that's a whole new tangent this thread could taper into...

 

[cris]

There is the point Corey made about the 'offcuts' (for lack of a better word). I'd assume these would be euthanised. But that's a whole new tangent this thread could taper into...

There are plenty of reptiles that sell for little money, far less than any hybrid snake. Anyway there are plenty of goannas, mulga snake and BHP's to take care of any left overs.

 

[pythonmania]

At the end of the day, everyone's opinions differ and we as an individual can choose to accept these new breeds or not with our wallets and purses. I for one think they are lovely especially the 2nd and 4th.

 

[wackotecho]

I found this list on the net, interesting to look at.

Here is a list of known hybrids:
-Diamond x Jungle Carpet = DxJ
-Diamond x Coastal Carpet = DxC
-Diamond X Bredls
-Diamond X (Bredls X Coastal) [Jaguar]
-Diamond x Inland (metcalfei)
-Bredls x Inland (metcalfei)
-Bredls x Jungle Carpet
-Bredls X Coastal [Jaguar]
-Bredls X (Bredls X Coastal) [Jaguar]
-West Papuan X (Bredls X Coastal ) [Jaguar]
-Coastal x Inland (metcalfei)
-Jungle x Water Python (Liasis fuscus)
-Jungle x Coastal Carpet = JxC
-Coastal x Macklots
-Jungle X (Coastal X Macklots) = Junglot
-Jungle x Tanimbar(nauta)
-Burm x African Rock
-Burm X Ball
-Burm x Retic = Bateater
-Burm x (Retic x Burm)
-Burm x Tiger Retic
-Retic x (Retic X Burm) = Jungle Retic (Thanks Kara)
-Kinghorni x Coastal
-Kinghorni x Jungle
-Kinghorni x fuscus by Royal Melbourne Zoo 1978
-Moluccan x Barneck
-Moluccan x Coastal
-Southern x Barneck
-Barneck x (Diamond X Coastal) by John Huntress 2008
-(IJ Carpet X Sorong GTP) X Coastal Jaguar Carpet= Jagpondro by Yasser Moustafa 2008
-Borneo STP X Red Blood
-Borneo STP x Black Blood
-Black Blood x Red Blood
-Borneo STP x Ball
-(Borneo STP x Ball) X Ball
-Angolan X Ball
-Woma x WP Carpet = Coma
-Macklots x Carpet = Carplot
-Macklots X Jungle = Junglot
-(Macklots X Jungle) X Jungle
-(Macklots X Carpet) X (IJ x Coastal Jaguar Carpet) = Jaglot by NERD
-Diamond X (Macklots X Jungle)= Dicarplot by NERD
-IJ Carpet (WP) X Ball = Carpall AKA Ballpet,Barpet
-Bredlijaguars x IJ carpets
-Diamond x Bredlijaguar
-Irian Jaya x 50% Jungle Jaguars (Irian Jaya x cheyni/mcdoweli)
-Carpet (various ssp.) x Green Tree = Carpondro
includes: Coastal X GTP
Diamond X Coastal X GTP
West Papuan X GTPby Chriss Rouille 2005
Jungle X GTP

Here is some interesting reading also:

http://www.smuggled.com/hybsna1.htm

http://www.smuggled.com/hybpyt2.htm

 

[Khagan]

@ The list.. I'm not against hybrids, purely because our normal carpets have so much variation it just intrigues me what could turn out combining 2 lots of variation.. But god some of those ones are a bit stupid.

 

[wackotecho]

Just shows what people in this hobby are willing to try, and that includes the Melbourne Zoo in the 70's

 

[CarpetPythons.com.au]

I would also just like to know what constitutes a good looking snake? How do we gauge what is spectacular? None of the locality line bred lines of carpets even resemble the wild occuring locality carpets. You also never see the professional line breeders show of the ugly babies in the clutch as this would not be good for their business. In every clutch of snakes at least three quarters end up looking ugly when they are adult. But what's ugly to me could be beautiful to somebody else. My point I guess is that you would have as many good looking snakes out of a clutch of mungrels as you would have out of a clutch of so called line bred animals. Its an evolutionery thing, nature makes sure there is enough diversity in a clutch so that some might make it to adulthood. Do yourself a favour and look at some of the reduced patterned Irian Jaya jags that are overseas! Definately the best looking carpet in the world in my opinion! And I know some will say its a jaguar, but its actually a mungrel. The irian jaya genes enhance the colour of the final jag! That is why people selectively cross breed, to find these enhancing traits. I do however have issues with people doing intra specific crosses!
Regards

 

[Australis]

None of the locality line bred lines of carpets even resemble the wild occuring locality carpets...

Thats ludicrous... you must not have of seen many wild carpet pythons then (not just those shown
on internet forums and the like).

 

[TrueBlue]

cordylus,-
I totally agree with Australis. That comment you made is absolute rubbish, and as he said you oblviously have not seen many wild carpets.
Ive seen better examples in the wild of pretty much all line bred coastals.

 

[DonnB]

I personally dislike hybrids. What will happen if one day we need to replenish wild stock because of extinction or other problems. I personally would like pure lines to go back into the wild. Not these mongrels ppl seem to wont to produce. Also i think most of them are ugly.

 

[pythons73]

Ive actually seen a few Really nice carpets in the wild,some are alot nicer than the ones in captivity.What you think is a nice snake,others will think its ugly.Everyone has different taste,especially in reptiles.Not all of us like exactly the same snake,theres so much colour and markings variations in alot of our localle carpets.