Some Morelia's

[textilis]

I am taking orders for a new species of snake that im sure will be a big hit with designer snake keepers,.................
it is a diamond python cross colubrid, having the beauty of a diamond and the delecate tooth of a rear fanged snake, I intend to call them ............... Dia-rear!!!!
Thats what i think of this intentional cross breeding and so fourth, in all my years of herps I never thought Australia would come to this, it is so true that Australia is following suit of so many other countries and becoming Americanised, and it can be witnessed in Aussie herp keeping today, it was never heard of in Oz when I started keeping herps and all of a sudden new keepers pop on the seen with their American loving ways and now look at the situation. Where is the patriotisim, stay true to Australia and what we stand for, love our herps natural diversity.
It has been metioned that in the future purist keepers will benifit the most from having true blood lines, but are we sure of this, if geneticlly pure animals become worth small fortunes who is to say that these intentional mongrel breeders wont try to pass off tampered blood lines as pure to make the quick buck out of the situation as they are presently.

 

[Aussietoby]

Each to their own really.
people's opinions should not be criticized because they are opposite to what someone else thinks.

They are good looking snakes.
And if they are hybrids who the hell cares.

If he they want to breed them, that's their choice.

You don't have to breed them,
or buy them.

People are entitled to do what they wish with what they have.
It's not wrong or right.
Just different,
And i think people on APS are absolutely terrified of change.


Joe

 

[zobo]

I do have to say that I am also worried about the number of keepers that have snakes escaping. Be a bit more careful, lock cages, and get decent cages. I have a few mates that all keep large numbers of snakes yet none of us have ha a single animal escape. It then amuses me when some of the same keepers then express issues about hybrids as they are worried about the natives. A carpet accidently released in the wrong area could actually cause wild hybrids too, so lock up your animals.

j

 

[Bushfire]

To Diamondgeeza: I agree with the main points you are pushing here.

To textilis: I don't think this is an American trend per say, its more of a global trend and its not just with animals. People want what is pretty because pretty things (in this case animals) can potentially increase their status and wealth. Its the same thinking whether its with locality lines or hybrid lines. As the natural forms become more commonly kept snakes that once was considered money makers aren't bring in the returns or the status the keepers thought they had so they are having to find ways to put themselves above the rest. (Just look at when the market value for a particular snake drops how many keepers are looking to sell their breeding stock or stop breeding) So far they are trying to do this with locality lines, unusual patterns, and hybrid lines.
Depending on how far back you come from, I think you will find it as your generation (again assuming the era in 70s, 80s and earlier) started this trend by putting some snakes value over others. Also lets stop beating around the bush and face it back then they didn't care about locality prue lines they just matched up whatever looked similar or could get their hands on. So much so that the majority of really common reptiles kept are either hybrid or potential hybrid, depending on what side of the coin you sit are you a lumper or a splitter. You dont have to look far or think that hard on what happened to the childreni complex.


As I see the current situation there is two extremes locality prue and hybrid. The majority of herpers are somewhat in the middle of those extremes as you would expect. The locality prue breeders are trying to push the majority to there side by using scare tactics and be little the hybrid side whereas the hybrid side are showing their best animals trying to whoo a bigger following. This thread is just another example of this battle between extremes. But I see the more that locality prue pull over to their side, the more hybrids are hidden for fear of the mob. So in all this where do I sit?? Lets see I do keep locality prue stock but not because its locality known but because I like the colours and patterns a particular form displays. But I also keep animals of unknown not proven localities so potentially hybrids, but thats fine with me too because I like their colours. So I sit somewhat in the middle. I can admire animals from hybrid origins because they are unusual and in my eyes pretty.

 

[wizz]

will lots of them are getting out on the gold coast..............6 so far this year...that do not come from here....

 

[zobo]

here is a pic of one of my PURE jungles that looks almost as good as the ones at start, just food for thought! Bit more selective breeding and should have some crackers!

jas

 

[phatt01]

Totally agree Diamondgeeza, very well said

 

[melgalea]

holy crap Zobo. that is hot hot hot. nothing beats the purity of a jungle. very nice indeed. if this is the future of pure snakes then i am there. why buy crap when the real thing is better.

 

[draqonfly]

nice jungle zobo !!! if only its easy to find pure jungles like those !!!! i think usually if a jungle is outstanding in appearance, the breeder wouldnt even consider selling it

 

[disasterpiece7.0]

Zobo, agaib, for the 400th time, My god that jungle is rediculous. If you die can I have that one?

He'd be close to breeding now wouldn't he? What are you gunne put him with?

 

[cris]

here is a pic of one of my PURE jungles that looks almost as good as the ones at start, just food for thought! Bit more selective breeding and should have some crackers!

jas

Nice what locale is it?

 

[Jungleland]

What a Monster of a thread

I was really surprise to see that it's still going, similar subject in the past gets easily out of hand resulting for the thread to get close.

great to read what different campers got to say, this is inevitable so might as well get debated in a nice manner so people can read and learn by the discussion and keepers and future hobbyist can choose which path to take.

The beauty of living in this country is that we have better options than other herpers around the world IMO, There will always be crosses but we can still source pure form locality animals that has been line bred and proven traits, definately room for both

here's a sample of pure prosiepine local animals I wil,l rate it as above average as I have seen some real screamers, I know it's no jag but as i said before they are in the league of their own, we have so much variety in this country and have every reason to enjoy this hobby.

 

[Southside Morelia]

I agree there...
BUT stop showing off...
Yer it is above average....:shock: Beautiful animal mate as usual!!!....

What a Monster of a thread

I was really surprise to see that it's still going, similar subject in the past gets easily out of hand resulting for the thread to get close.

great to read what different campers got to say, this is inevitable so might as well get debated in a nice manner so people can read and learn by the discussion and keepers and future hobbyist can choose which path to take.

The beauty of living in this country is that we have better options than other herpers around the world IMO, There will always be crosses but we can still source pure form locality animals that has been line bred and proven traits, definately room for both

here's a sample of pure prosiepine local animals I wil,l rate it as above average as I have seen some real screamers, I know it's no jag but as i said before they are in the league of their own, we have so much variety in this country and have every reason to enjoy this hobby.

 

[Simple]

here is a pic of one of my PURE jungles that looks almost as good as the ones at start, just food for thought! Bit more selective breeding and should have some crackers!

jas

Are these locality animals?

 

[stuartandconnie]

well done im sure people in the bird word were aganced it 1st off but look how that has changed

 

[krefft]

It's great to see everyone adopting a live and let live approach on the subject. Or maybe both camps have just given up trying to win people to their way of thinking.
And finally some pictures. I bought this first guy on AHC off a breeder in Qld. I got 3 but the other 2 are nowhere near as good.
The second photo was given to me as a Murry Darling??! So I guess that make's it a Muddymongrelmutt, but it's also pretty hot. I will be breeding her with something next season. Yes, and I will sell the offspring as Muddymongrelmutts if your interested.

 

[diamondgeeza]

Its not unheard of actually diamondgeeza (private keepers like Craig Latta),
besides very few people would be anti-hybrid on the basis you argue against, that being the
release of stock back to the wild.

Do you also have a problem with keepers in North America keeping Corns? for the reasons
you mention, or is it just us silly little Australians who have snakes escape.. surely more
corns escape each year in America than Australian snakes escaping from Aussie collections
given the minuscule number of reptile keepers (people in general) in Australia...
A quick look at some north American field herper reports will give you an idea.

If you want to talk about native wild life , perhaps its overseas keepers who then should
be prohibited from keeping Australian fauna, to cut back the market for smuggling reptiles
out of the country? (im not saying it would work however).

I am sure they do escape elsewhere Australis but it seems to be only you Australians who whinge so much about snakes being anti hybrid (and by whinge I mean whinge more than us pomes) and stating that it is the hybrids that will cause the problems to you native snakes when they escape.

In addition to hybridisation should you also not be looking down your noses at line breeding as this in time will result with you having snakes that also look a million miles away from their natural form. Many people say that so and so snake is a 'specific locality' but due to the fact that it has been selectively bred by the best looking of its species (which again is not what the snakes in question would go for as they are just up for a good old mating session and the females pattern is irrelevant) it generally looks nothing like its true form (but however does look good).

So in addition to hydrids should you also be now bullying the keepers who selectively breed?

You should face it, you may not like the keeping / making of hybrid species but you are fighting a loosing battle. As time progresses you will find that most snakes kept in captivity will be far larger and more attractively patterned than their native counterparts.

ps. you will also find that the majority of Australian snakes smuggled out of Australia is by Australians. You will also find that the majority of it was captive bred too such as the albino darwins etc etc

 

[hawkesbury reptiles]

Interesting 'Murray Darling' you have there.....could be interesting...

 

[krefft]

The two I posted are male and female and around the same size. That could be a pairing for next year I think.

 

[TrueBlue]

diamondgezza,
Its the hobby that my main argument is about. As has been said, (and already done in oz), people will pass hybrids off as pure animals when selling them and in turn pollute the hobby. It will end up putting a cloud of dought over alot of species, as in years to come the waters will get far to muddied to tell what is still pure and what is not.
Albino darwins are a perfect example of this, people are putting them over every form of carpet they can get their hands on. It wont take many years untill every pure albino darwin in the country has a cloud of dought over it.