Some Morelia's

[cockney red]

heres a pic of a jagish looking jungle coiled up in the wild from that area mentioned ,
the pic and locality info was posted on another forum , MP.com

also a pic of another wild jungle from atherton tablelands
P Berridge took the atherton pic and it was on his web site for years so there are wild type jagish jungles,

Just something to consider
yes the berridge pic looks shopped but he was known for his shop work, etc LOL
but the colour still would have been similiar etc.

Silicone free Aussie stunners.:shock:

 

[moreliainsanity]

Sorry QldMorelia, they just look like JAGS to me.
Say they come up for sale one day, would they be cheaper to market them as crosses than Jags, sure will be less controversial(maybe a little bit) How much would a Killer looking cross carpets be worth?

Leigh

 

[cris]

Totally agree - however:

Either would Brisbane locales and Townsville locales breed in the wild, both McDowelli and not considered a hybrid, would consider it as a locality cross.

Thanks for the info. I have sent you a PM.

Locality crosses are still hybrids, its quite likely that jungles and coastals are the same subspecies anyway.

 

[TrueBlue]

Mudimans and No-two,- it is NOT illegal to keep and breed albinos in QLD. The are a naturally occuring mutation, i have spoken to QPWS about this and they have no problem with it.
What they are talking about are man made mutations that are NOT naturally occouring, as it seems they do not want the reptile hobby going the same way as the bird hobby.

 

[disasterpiece7.0]

Mudimans and No-two,- it is NOT illegal to keep and breed albinos in QLD. The are a naturally occuring mutation, i have spoken to QPWS about this and they have no problem with it.
What they are talking about are man made mutations that are NOT naturally occouring, as it seems they do not want the reptile hobby going the same way as the bird hobby.

What is the definition of a man made mutation?

 

[idontlikeurmango]

Locality crosses are still hybrids, its quite likely that jungles and coastals are the same subspecies anyway.

Locality crosses are hybrids?

So a Prosperpine mcdowelli with a Townsville mcdowelli is a hybrid? A Palmerston cheynei and a Tully cheynei is a hybrid??? A Gosford spilota and a Wollongong spilota is a hybrid?????

I vaguely agree with this but it is not common practice to consider two of the same subspecies from different locales hybrids.

I do believe however that animals to as far down as Paluma are quite possibly naturally occuring intergrades between the mcdowelli and cheynei. This just coming from my various field herping and observations no scientific proof of course.

 

[TrueBlue]

disasterpeice,- Some thing that has been produced in captivity and is not naturally occouring.

 

[cris]

Mudimans and No-two,- it is NOT illegal to keep and breed albinos in QLD. The are a naturally occuring mutation, i have spoken to QPWS about this and they have no problem with it.
What they are talking about are man made mutations that are NOT naturally occouring, as it seems they do not want the reptile hobby going the same way as the bird hobby.

Where do you get the idea that this is only applies to man made mutations? Legally you are fine though because it is impossible to breed a mutation, as a mutation isnt a thing that breeds. Whoever wrote that little bit that says you "cant knowingly breed hybrids or mutations" is a complete idiot who doesnt understand english.

 

[disasterpiece7.0]

disasterpeice,- Some thing that has been produced in captivity and is not naturally occouring.

Would that go so far as to say that jags and granites etc woul dbe man made mutation? or are they considered naturally occuring?

I think this may get a little confusing due to the fact that unless it's a blatent hybrid then who's to say what wouldn't have naturally occured at some stage... Perhaps most recessive mutations have occured at some stage but due to the recessive nature and a fairly diverse bloodline (combines with natural selectiong taking out most hets) they're been sifted out until only a few specimens remain as hets for the original mutation?

I dunno, I'm just putting things out there. Were they specific about any known mutations that are illegal to breed?

As far as locality goes I think there's also a bit of confusion on where to draw the line. I personally don't intend to put athertons with lowland forms of jungles (tullies, palms etc) myself, but that's more because I like the smaller size of lowlands then considering it a hybrid. I don't intend to breed coastals anymore, so I'm not gunna add anything to the brissy x townsville debate.

 

[TrueBlue]

They are mainly talking about colour/pattern mutations which can and do readily breed. Not morphological mutations. (which some of which would also be able to breed and would also fit into what they call a mutation so illegal to breed i would pressume).
Like whats happened to budgies and alot of native finches in the bird hobby. Most these days look nothing like a wild type animal.
Reptiles would be alot harder to produce such mutations but as they are closely related to birds, it seems this law was made to cover themselves incase it was as easy.
A very gray area indeed.

 

[disasterpiece7.0]

They are talking about colour/pattern mutations which can and do readily breed. Not morphological mutations. (which some would also be able to breed).
Like whats happened to budgies and alot of native finches in the bird hobby. Most these days look nothing like a wild type animal.
Reptiles would be alot harder to produce such mutations but as they are closely related to birds, it seems this law was made to cover themselves incase it was as easy.

Ahhh, i see now. Fair enough.

Yeah, I'd like to see a blue jungle, or maybe bright red... but it probably won't happen.

 

[NickM]

those are Jags,
post pics of the bellys, most jags have patternless bellies. If those are not jags they should have normally patterned ventrals

If I am wromng I would expect pics showing normal ventral patterning. If I am correct and they are jags, I suspect my post will simply be ignored.

Nick

 

[moreliainsanity]

[qoute=Trueblue]
looks like someone is trying to hide their jags identity.

those are Jags,
post pics of the bellys, most jags have patternless bellies. If those are not jags they should have normally patterned ventrals

If I am wromng I would expect pics showing normal ventral patterning. If I am correct and they are jags, I suspect my post will simply be ignored.

Nick

I'm with you guys be interesting to grab a pair when they come up for sale,breed them and end up with dead leucies:lol::lol: now that's a dead giveaway

 

[ryanharvey1993]

how about some pics, with each one, what they are called, what they are crossed with

 

[Simple]

Except for the third one, they look like jags to me.

 

[cris]

They are mainly talking about colour/pattern mutations which can and do readily breed. Not morphological mutations. (which some of which would also be able to breed and would also fit into what they call a mutation so illegal to breed i would pressume).
Like whats happened to budgies and alot of native finches in the bird hobby. Most these days look nothing like a wild type animal.
Reptiles would be alot harder to produce such mutations but as they are closely related to birds, it seems this law was made to cover themselves incase it was as easy.
A very gray area indeed.

I wasnt trying to say that mutations cant be heritable. What i meant was a mutation is a genetic change, it is not the animal that has it. For eg. an albino python is not a mutation it is a python with a mutation causing it to be an albino. I would agree it is a very grey area, possibly why it seems to be rarely enforced.

 

[cris]

Locality crosses are hybrids?

Yes, this sticky thread explains it well.
http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/herp-help/faq-what-is-a-hybrid-44640

 

[QldMorelias]

Hi Guys and thanks for all the PM's We've had stacks and prettywell everyone is in support of the crosses.
These lines are in the hands of a few people so I have to wait to get pics off them. I'll put up info when I get it. Thought I'd stick up a few of the belly

Quote:
those are Jags,
post pics of the bellys, most jags have patternless bellies. If those are not jags they should have normally patterned ventrals
If I am wromng I would expect pics showing normal ventral patterning. If I am correct and they are jags, I suspect my post will simply be ignored.
Nick

Sorry Nick, and everyone else who seems to really want these to be jags.No deal.
A few people have offered to send pics of their crosses which I'm happy to put up if you want to remain annon.
Cheers guys

 

[ryanharvey1993]

they are hot snakes, no matter what they are. what is a jag, I have never bothered reading half the hybrid threads as there is to much **** always posted.

 

[bigi]

Hey QLDMorelias, have you got the lineage pics, you were talking about putting up earlier
thanks