NSW DECCW Code of Practice...

[hugsta]

Great idea anouc, lets hope someone can come up with something. This change in the code may not affect us interstate keepers straight away but there is a huge chance it will, we need to all get together and do something about it before its too late

This is dead on, we need to band together, in the past there were, and possibly still are, too many people fighting for their own personal gains or benefits. It has now come to the point where we all need to be on the same team as this will affect us all.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

We all know that herpers are a diverse group, and it is hard to tie them together into a cohesive bunch. However, this is too important to allow it to go through without proper scrutiny, which is what both departments are determined to do. THEY will tell you what is right for your animals, regardless of circumstance or your level of experience.

I have emailed the acting Director, Reserve and Wildlife Branch, twice this week, asking that they replace the out-of-date Code on their website, with the current document, but have had no response. At the very least, it should be removed so that keepers are not mislead about the intent of the Code, which is about prosecution for non-compliance with DECCW standards. If it is removed, rather than replaced with the current Code, it will confirm that they don't want keepers to know what's in store for them before it becomes law.

So much for transparency. The interests of keepers and their animals come WAY behind the interests of the government officers trying to get this through the system.

 

[hugsta]

This should also be communicated to the Minister and copied to the DECCW Director. His Department is engaging in unethical if not fraudulent practices. Intentional deception is fraud.

So if they do not remove it from their site or replace it with the revised document, then does the above statement apply? And if so, how do we go about actioning it? Are you able to email them stating the above and that it is fraudulent/deceibtful and that it must be removed...??

 

[Waterrat]

Jamie, if it's acceptable here on APS - could post the name and email address of the acting Director? I wonder how much traffic would their server hold if hundreds of email would come through on one day. Monday is a good day, then "re-send" every day afterwards. Really, little effort on our part.

So if they do not remove it from their site or replace it with the revised document, then does the above statement apply? And if so, how do we go about actioning it? Are you able to email them stating the above and that it is fraudulent/deceibtful and that it must be removed...??

Best to go through the ministerial. They listen if directives come from above.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I'm considering the alternatives right now Michael & Hugsta. I am seeking legal advice about what our next step may be at this very moment.

I've been reluctant to publish email addresses and phone numbers, in the hope that we get a reasoned response from the Department, and within a reasonable time, but it feels like we're just poking at a dead whale at the moment. I'm sure the contact details are in the public domain already, because they circulated them when they were seeking submissions from interested parties when developing the Code. It may be that they just have to deal with the consequences of their silence.

 

[Waterrat]

I thing the upcoming elections give us an unprecedented momentum and opportunity to make monumental changes. We need to act swiftly, decisively and with full force. I think you're right Jamie, the good will and friendly negotiations passed their use by date.
If SA and Qld can have user friendly laws and regulations pertaining to reptile keeping, why is NSW stubbornly heading in the opposite direction? The DECCW bureaucrats need to be reminded that they re public servants, i.e. they're here (and being paid) to serve us not to dictate and pursue their own agenda.

 

[kupper]

Not to derail the thread as it is one of great importance for NSW keepers

But the same sort of action needs to be taken for Victorian keepers ATM with the DSE taking keepers through the legal ringer over paperwork issues !

We are so behind in eligible species keeping lists and treated like criminals because we chose a hobby that is regulated by a government branch

Good luck to you all and hope that someone can get some sense out of them

 

[fugawi]

I don't know much about politics but it seems to me that they are trying to push this through quickly and make it law before the election. It is pretty obvious that Labor don't stand much of a chance in the elections so the current minister probably knows he won't be in the job soon. Is he/she trying to pass a law that doesn't effect many people so they can say they did something while in office? If it is something they want to push through quickly, why are they so scared of a new minister and can we DELAY this until the new minister comes in?
The last time I tried to talk to the minister about selling in shops, I got blown off and told that NSW will not change and that all the other states will fall in line behind NSW. Just pure arrogance. This is what we face.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Have to go into town just now... will be back later.

J

 

[-Peter]

I know that the probable next NSW Environment Minister is aware of our concerns. Beyond that I dont know.

 

[zulu]

Have to go into town just now... will be back later.

J

ive been battling with the NSW NPWS for the last 40 years,by the time they brought the keepers license system i was totally fed up with them.
Wish you luck jamie,they are like dealing with inanimate objects.When you arrived from WA and started posting here you thought i was too hard on them,theyll make you wish you found a nice pub in town and had a drink.
Wish you and others here luck anyway,even michael ! :lol:

 

[sesa-sayin]

just 1 small window of light for those who have 5 year licences......during the period of that licence, but only during that period i, it is most unlikely that the Law would uphold the principle that animals would have to be surrendered " without payment of just compensation ". that is one reason why there is a term certain as to the licence. you could negotiate for anothrt year or so, about quantum.ie the amount to be paid.....and no Govt. is ever going to hand over thousands of dollars for snakes or lizards

 

[saximus]

Why would we be forced to surrender our animals unless they were illegally obtained in the first place?

 

[Waterrat]

ive been battling with the NSW NPWS for the last 40 years,by the time they brought the keepers license system i was totally fed up with them.
Wish you luck jamie,they are like dealing with inanimate objects.When you arrived from WA and started posting here you thought i was too hard on them,theyll make you wish you found a nice pub in town and had a drink.
Wish you and others here luck anyway,even michael ! :lol:

And lots of luck we will need. It's not just about this proposed code of practice, there are other, equally pressing issues such as the awkward licensing system, import / export permits, which contradict constitutional law pertaining to free interstate trade, and whatever else you guys in NSW, Vic, Tas, WA (mainly) suffer from. We need to turn the tide and convince the respective ministers that SA and Qld should be the model, not the other way around.

 

[Ramsayi]

The quicker we get a state and national body together,with duly appointed representatives,the better.

Threads such as this come up every now and again but unfortunately rhetoric will hold no weight with the department.

Why would we be forced to surrender our animals unless they were illegally obtained in the first place?

Because they are listed as wildlife and therefore are property of the crown.

 

[Waterrat]

Because they are listed as wildlife and therefore are property of the crown.

That's what they want us to believe. I won't say no more.

 

[zulu]

And lots of luck we will need. It's not just about this proposed code of practice, there are other, equally pressing issues such as the awkward licensing system, import / export permits, which contradict constitutional law pertaining to free interstate trade, and whatever else you guys in NSW, Vic, Tas, WA (mainly) suffer from. We need to turn the tide and convince the respective ministers that SA and Qld should be the model, not the other way around.

yes michael,NSW needs to go online for import/exports and returns like QLD and SA.

The quicker we get a state and national body together,with duly appointed representatives,the better.

Threads such as this come up every now and again but unfortunately rhetoric will hold no weight with the department.

Yes ramsayi,there needs to be a state and national body,the sooner the better.

Because they are listed as wildlife and therefore are property of the crown.

 

[Waterrat]

It seems to me that because NSW has by far the largest number of reptile registered keepers, the DECCW sees it as an opportunity for financial revenue (followed by Vic). On the other hand, Qld and SA were clever enough to realise that the administrative costs would outweigh the income, so they have shaven off any access fat (law enforcement, inspections, permit admin, etc.) WA is still in the Jurassic.

Who is the really clever one - the "premier state", "the place to be" or the "sunshine state"? If I was to choose a personalised number plate for my car, it would read "JOKE"

 

[sesa-sayin]

Why would we be forced to surrender our animals unless they were illegally obtained in the first place?

because the enclosures we can provide for the larger of our animals, although quite adaequate for the animals over many generations, might not be adaequate in size in the eyes of the regulators . which is what this particular link is all about

 

[Octane]

If regulated cage sizes are implemented who inspects.

I have become aware of a problem in regards to animal caging being inspected at a pet shop. The inspections were carried out by multiple agencies. It was explained to me in regards to this DII departmental officers, RSPCA inspectors and Animal Welfare League inspectors are authorised officers and can enter to check compliance.

DII inspector multiple inspections no problems.
RSPCA multiple inspections over several years nil issues
Two weeks after last RSPCA inspection with a no issues raised Animal Welfare League officers come in with their applicartion of the regulations and issue a compliance notice.

Petshop owner and consults other inpecting agencies for clarification and seeks legal advice. In the end the petshop owner was advised the application of the regulations was up to the inspection agency.
Instead of engaing in a possibly lengthy (and costly) legal battle they decided to replace all caging to be in excess of minimum required by Animal Welfare League interpretation. End cost a little over $3000 to the small business owner.

I really have an objection to the inference that an animal is not being well cared for based on a regulated specification and a tape measure.
Who is going to be doing the inspecting and what is the appeal process if they deem non compliance. Does DECCW plan to employ inspectors or are they going to use other agencies.

Concerned
Octane