NSW DECCW Code of Practice...

[Guest]

I was sent the new draft around 2 weeks ago

is the code of practice posted at the start of the thread the DECCW's new draft or a proposal because it seems to be a little "simple" even for the NPWS lol it looks like a photocopy of something written back in the 90's

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I have not much time at the moment, but I received a letter from DECCW via email yesterday re: the Code. I will add more later when I've had some feedback from your keeper advocates. The Code, if it is introduced with MANDATORY constraints, will remain a bureaucratic outrage forced upon keepers of reptiles in NSW.

Jamie

 

[pythons73]

If it is introduced Jamie,what time frame are we talking about..

 

[Fusion-Reptiles]

what are the tub keeper going to do?
how long do we have till insanity is FORCED on us like a group of drunken footyheads?

seriously how long till this bs is passed? if its passed im goin underground i cant afford even 2 snakes with this bs

 

[AUSHERP]

Pet shops in NSW are pushing to be able to sell reptiles over the counter, DECC are working closely with a few of these shops in relation to "the code" they need some sort of regulation in regards to housing so they can legalize the keeping of herps in stores, a good place to start these laws is privately and keep the real agenda in the shadow.
As Jamie said, an email was sent out yesterday, and apparently the laws are all going through....... It's only a matter of time before they start policing it.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

I'll copy the body of the email from Daniel Van Dyk here shortly. Because we are insisting on a face-to face meeting with DECCW to discuss further concerns, they have come back, after 5 weeks, with a request for further written and electronic submissions. I will post the email addresses of the individuals in Hurstville who should be contacted to demand that a copy of the current Code be made available dfor scrutiny by keepers. The behaviour of the Department has been outrageous in denying us a full meeting to discuss our concerns.

Still they deny us the opportunity to meet with them. We have no problem with a Code of Practice that promotes GUIDELINES for keeping, but the introduction of MANDATORY standards will change the landscape for keepers in NSW, and furnish the department with a big hammer to punish keepers who don't comply with the very unscientific and arbitary standards they propose to put into law.

First, we need to know how large and persistent is the problem of 'poorly kept' reptiles in NSW. The answer must be 'not very...." Does anyone see a stream of prosecutions in the courts, by welfare agencies? No! This is dreamed up by bureaucrats who don't like racks. The philosophical reasons for it are far more complex than meet the eye, and the very basis for its intrduction as enforceable standards must be challenged.

Back soon.

J

 

[AUSHERP]

I agree Jamie. where is the evidence that Reptiles are being mistreated based on enclosure sizes? If anything they are thriving, feeding, growing and obviously breeding!! This to me are not the signs of a stressed, mistreated animal.
The department has been very secretive and stand offish in regards to the code. They know if it gets out on a mass scale what they are doing, they will have a big problem on their hands and will (hopefully) have no choice but to scrap it.

 

[Waterrat]

They know if it gets out on a mass scale what they are doing, they will have a big problem on their hands and will (hopefully) have no choice but to scrap it.

The problem is - time is running out. It seems they want to get it through while this government is still in. Surely there must be a way (ministerial, legal, etc.) to put an injunction on this rot.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Well, they've called for more submissions, and the election is Saturday, so I don't think much will happen before the new government is installed. We have access to very good legal advice, and will be following through with further action should we not get a reasonable response from the Department. They are trying all ways to stall, and won't answer any of our reasonable questions, and especially will not agree to meet with the larger group. We've been trying for over 12 months now and all we get is stalling. They won't tell us why they won't meet with us, so we have to reach our own conclusions about that. Clearly they don't want scrutiny.

But the prospect of them implementing laws 'just in case there's a problem' is clearly not tenable. Show us the evidence of a problem that requires a change in the law that will affect almost 20,000 keepers in NSW and we'll listen... otherwise back off and leave us alone.

J

 

[Fusion-Reptiles]

are they looking to limit breeders with racks or cheap people with few snakes kept in tubs?
can we use the dec ballot of seized herps to strengthen the fact their view is VERY wrong
and if their seizing 10-20 herps for mistreatment then the rest of us are ok, their for they are wrong?

 

[jack]

otori, you have made me see the positive in this at last:
every month there will be a deccw ballot with hundreds of really nice animals obtained from lots of large breeders who use racks and have been busted for improper housing... it'll be reptile lotto

 

[AUSHERP]

I doubt it Jack, when it's seized we all know where the nice ones go..... So more specifically it will be a "what DECC and friends didn't want lotto".
They have refused to meet with any sort of group of keepers in relation to this code, unless done secretly with people they think will benefit the motion.

 

[Sock Puppet]

The problem is - time is running out. It seems they want to get it through while this government is still in. Surely there must be a way (ministerial, legal, etc.) to put an injunction on this rot.

Well, they've called for more submissions, and the election is Saturday, so I don't think much will happen before the new government is installed.

If there is no further action/initiation of this prior to this weekend, & assuming we have a change of state government, how will this bode for our cause? Better? Worse? Exactly the same? What changes, if any, would be made within the DECCW if there is a new state government?

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Attached is the letter from DECCW seeking further submissions on the NSW Reptile Keepers Code of Practice. Please email the department, expressing your concern that they will not meet with their own appointed advisory group, to discuss the very real concerns this group has with regard to the Code, its content, and its intent.

You will note the reference to 'the Code's objective remains to improve the welfare of captive reptiles.' The advisory group, appointed by DECCW, and made up of members of most of the Herp Groups in NSW, has some of the leading and most experienced professional and private keepers and academics in the state. The group unanimously supports a voluntary Code of Practice for reptile keepers in NSW, but is unanimously opposed to the introduction of enforceable standards for private keepers. The drive for enforceability is coming from the Department of Industry and Investment, and there appears to be no evidence-based need for such a drastic change in the way the DECCW does business with reptile keepers in NSW.

We all have the welfare of our animals uppermost in our list of priorities. Those of us with significant experience with reptiles will know that the enormous range of species, coupled with the varying behaviours of individuals within species, simply does not allow a 'one size fits all' approach to the care of our animals. Unless the Department can provide evidence of significant and ongoing problems with the welfare of captive reptiles in NSW, which are unable to be addressed by the legal mechanisms already available to them, we believe that this Code of Practice should remain as recommendations, rather than enforceable standards.

J

 

[Kurto]

Thats a nice *cough* vague *cough* letter.

 

[dangles]

are u able to post the draft code up? i saw a little on lizard enclosure size and felt they were reasonable

 

[saximus]

are u able to post the draft code up? i saw a little on lizard enclosure size and felt they were reasonable

It's on the first page (post #7). The sizes are reasonable for those of us with only a few animals but for large scale keepers/breeders it would be prohibitively expensive to change them all. In most cases it may be straight out impossible

 

[GeckoJosh]

It's on the first page (post #7). The sizes are reasonable for those of us with only a few animals but for large scale keepers/breeders it would be prohibitively expensive to change them all. In most cases it may be straight out impossible

Well we arent supposed to commercially breeding reptiles anyway....

 

[dangles]

saximus that is different to the lizard specs i saw that had an L as part of enclosure formula. The latest email went out a cple of days ago not last month as per that draft

 

[zulu]

Decc says that it goes before the animal welfare advisory council,exactly who sits on that council. Its the make up of that particular group which is of concern also,seems to be taken from the RSPCA and other bodies that seem to overplay things. You onley have tp look at the I@I site theyve got transportation,dogs, birds etc covered.